personally to me Tzeentch is all about psychic powers and change, i get that in the TT the mark makes you have invulnerable saves, but realistically if we think about it this is probably either a psychic passive shield, or maybe some precognition if we are sticking to the fluff and what tzeentches shtych is. I think MoT should not bother trying to make people tougher .... 2-3 of the other marks will be doing that ... in general in the game we need offensive minded wargear all around, im in favor of MoT buffing psychic powers damage, or increasing their regain speed .... or maybe mutating the Chaos space marine and giving him a weird effect on their melee (Warp tentacles). Maybe .... they could have more than one version of each chaos gods marks emphasizing different aspects of that deity, like a mark for nurgle that increases his poison effectiveness in some way, The equipment diversity is getting better but its still a very small pool of tweak and most of it is just more or less of the same, we need more outlyer and different equipment for different purposes and i think the marks is a great place to work on that. could maybe make a passive psychic power you could take, that reduced the number of spells you deployed to by taking a slot that added to shield size but recharged like the psychic powers ....
MoT is best when you are able to stick to cover a lot. Armor starts regenerating in a little under 2 seconds and is back to full in even shorter time. Take Daemonforged armor to compliment it and you've made up the loss of 30 health with an extra 40 armor. IMO it works best on a Traitor as you can duck in to a fight and when your armor gets shaved off just retreat into cover. When your armor comes back up a few seconds later you're back into the fray. Can even use the time to reload! MoN has been working rather well with Havok for me. 160 Toughness is nothing to scoff at. MoS's armor regen penalty is rather inconvenient, but I still find it useful on my meltagun loadout to quickly get close to a tank that isn't looking, blow it to pieces, then GTFO. Plus we haven't gotten our Mark wargear in yet. That'll change up the way we use marks a lot.
I made a thread on LSM chapter tactics as something that the EC team could do instead of making equipment that copies mark abilities (which seems bleh), but my thread was buried quickly. http://forum.eternalcrusade.com/threads/do-we-know-how-chapter-tactics-for-sm-will-work.55905/
The Mark of Nurgle should provide the player with increased Toughness, which should be a core statistics that is used to determine HP value. All classes by default should be able to recover up to 10 HP by staying out-of-combat long enough. All classes by default should recover 10 HP when they melee an enemy Down or perform an Execution. A CSM should have 66.8 Armor(3+ Armor Save, 4 of 6) and 40 HP(Toughness 4 of 10) and should take 13.6 DMG* per bolt, taking 8 Bolts to Down with a 0.25-sec Fire Rate(4 Bolts/sec) for a 1.75-sec TTK. A CSM with Mark of Nurgle should have 66.8 Armor and 55 HP(T5 of 10 +12.5% base HP) and only take 10.2 HP DMG per Bolt from a Bolter. With their 66.8 Armor, it should take 10 Bolts to Down them for a TTK of 2.25-sec. The MoN CSM should be able to recover up to 20 to 25 HP by staying out-of-combat long enough and should receive healing from Nurgle-based Sorceries like the Stream of Corruption, which should be a channeled breath attack with a short range and wide angle not a tentacle beam. In return, the MoN should slightly reduce the player's move speed. A CSM with Mark of Tzeentch should have 83.5 Armor and 40 HP, taking 10 Bolts to Down for a TTK of 2.25-sec. Their Armor Recharge Delay/Rate could be adjusted to improve the Armor's survivability in a similar manner to the MoN's increased OOCombat HP regen. Additionally, Tzeentch-based Sorceries could have affects of players with the MoT, such as improving their Armor repair. A CSM with Mark of Slaanesh should have 66.8 Armor and 40 HP for an 8 Bolt TTK of 1.75-sec; however, they should have increased Move Speed, allowing them to limit their exposure to enemy fire and get within range more quickly. Rather than increasing their attack speed, their greater move speed should allow them to avoid more attacks and more frequently get behind their enemies, which should provide a Back-Stab bonus for all classes, thereby indirectly improving their melee. CSM Base Move Speeds Forward: 6-ms Strafe: 5-ms Back-Pedal: 4-ms Sprint: 12-ms CSM MoS Move Speeds Forward: 7.5-ms Strafe: 6-ms Back-Pedal: 4-ms Sprint: 15-ms A CSM with the Mark of Khorne should have 66.8 Armor and 40 HP for an 8 Bolt TTK of 1.75-sec; however, they should have increased Attack Speed so they can kill their enemies more quickly in melee and should receive 15 HP when they melee Down or Execute an enemy. They could receive some healing from allied attacks either from all allies or just those with the MoK. Allies without the MoK could receive temporarily increased attack speed if meleed by allies with the MoK. Instead of Mark boni being unique to the Mark, they could provide their benefits to all allies but have increased effects on those with the matching Mark. For instance, most allies may only heal at 20 HP/sec under Nurgle healing but MoN players would heal for 25 or 30 HP/sec. As far as Mark of Undivided I do not believe there actually is one. You simply wear the usual Chaos 8-pointed star and by not spending points on a Mark you have points to spend on something else, such as a damage/fire rate increase to your weapon. In all, it rewards group diversity by letting players of different marks cover for each others' weaknesses and also rewards groups that worship a single God in order maximize their strengths in disregard of their weaknesses; after all, if you overcome your enemy before they can exploit your weakness then you technically don't have one. *Imperial Guardsman(Strength 3) used for 10 Base DMG. Using system that rounds DMG to nearest tenth, S1 must be at least 3.4 DMG to make S3 be at least 10 DMG(10.2). Bolter is S4 so deals 13.6 Base DMG. +/- 10% DMG for each point difference between Strength and Toughness If S is 2x or more than T +50% DMG If S is 1/2 or less than T -50% DMG The Marks are supposed to be stat boosters. The idea is to make each one unique in comparison to the more generic upgrades of a similar type players could get. For instance, while the Mark of Nurgle should raise Toughness/HP, increase OOCombat HP regen and allow healing from Nurgle-based Sorceries it should also slightly slow the user, while a basic "Toughness!" upgrade would be cheaper and would only raise Toughness/HP. The Mark of Tzeentch could not only raise the player's max Armor but also reduce its Recharge Delay and increase its Recharge Rate, while a basic "Reinforced Armor!" upgrade would be cheaper and only raise max Armor. There could be comparable upgrades for SM. For example, Blood Angels could have the "Blood Thirst!" that could effectively be the same as the Mark of Khorne. Space Wolves could have "Call of the Wulfen!". Ultra's could be "Elite Swordsmanship!" and instead of providing allies increased attack speed when meleeing them and being healed by allied melee attacks it could cause enemies struck in melee to take bleeding damage and/or receive reduced healing. Or something. The Iron Halo is an effective counter-part to the Mark of Tzeentch, while "Adrenaline Boosters!" could provide a move speed increase similar to the Mark of Slaanesh. "Bionics!" could be the SM's Mark of Nurgle counter-part, providing the Marine with increased Toughness/HP and OOCombat HP regen, which all classes should have as a default mechanic. Both would reduce the user's move speed slightly and while the MoN could receive slightly increased healing from all sources and be healed by Nurgle-based sorceries like the Stream of Corruption, which should be a channeled breath attack not a tentacle beam, the player with "Bionics!" could receive increased healing from all sources and/or improvements to their Armor Recharge Delay/Rate. While each Chapter could have upgrade counter-parts to not only CSM wargear but other Chapter gear, when/how they are able to unlock it could vary. For instance, playing as a Blood Angel it may only take 5,000 General XP to unlock "Blood Thirst!" as a Tier 1 trait, while Smurfs may need to spend 7,500 General XP to unlock "Expert Swordsmanship!" as a Tier 1 or 2 trait. In contrast, there could be a ranged upgrade that only costs 5,000 XP for the blues, while the Blood Angels' counter-part costs 7,500. Or the traits/perks/whatever could cost the same but be located at earlier/later tiers in the advancement tree, needing other nodes purchased/a certain number of Tier 1/2/3 XP spent to unlock the next one first. Exactly. Things should be worked to a certain statistical balance, without large drawbacks to what are supposed to be upgrades, with load-out points filling out the rest of the balance issues by making wargear that is overall better than other pieces cost more.
I'm sorry, are you still talking about your proposed stats that have nothing to do with what the game is?
What I meant by not being direct stat boosters was more "abstract" effects on gameplay. Here's an example: Mark of Nurgle - Increased toughness - Immunity/healing to/from poison based damage - Reduced movement speed - Possibility to poison in melee (To simulate the diseased aspect, unless we get poisoned melee choices/plague knives. Might be a bit much, could be moved to sigil) - Incapable of using Tzeentchian spells, if on sorcerer Sigil of Nurgle - Increased Toughness - % Based damage reduction - Immunity/healing to/from poison based damage - Reduced movement speed - Possibility to poison in melee - You cannot regenerate health - Tzeentchian spells are less effective on this unit (Possibly, might be a bit much, but I think antithetical god marks/powers should have reduced/damaged interaction. For the sake of chaos.) - Explode on death, poisoning those around you - Incapable of using Tzeentchian spells, if on sorcerer Mark of Slaanesh - Increased movement speed - Reduced Armor regeneration - Increased attack speed in melee - If on sorcerer, LoS deals more damage - Reduced health - Additional damage to Eldar units Sigil of Slaanesh - Increased movement speed - Reduced Armor regeneration - Increased attack speed in melee - Additional damage to Eldar units - Shorter stuns/dazes in melee/healed by stuns/dazes (masochism) - If on sorcerer, LoS deals more damage - Reduced health Mark of Tzeentch - Invisibility on radar/minimap - Unit can have 2 spells equipped at once, if sorcerer (as in, having heal and flames of tzeentch both active at once without having to switch) - Cannot use Nurglesque spells, if on sorcerer - Increased Armor regen - Nurglesque spells are less effective/ineffective on this unit. Sigil of Tzeentch - Invisibility on radar/minimap - Unit can have 2 spells equipped at once, if sorcerer (as in, having heal and flickering fire both active at once without having to switch) - Cannot use Nurglesque spells, if on sorcerer - Increased Armor regen - Flickering fire damage increased - Possibly a "psychic" shield on top of their armor/ a small psychic shield on whoever they apply the Tzeentch heal to. May be a bit much. - Nurglesque spells are less effective/ineffective on this unit. Mark of Khorne - Heal on melee execute/heal on kill/ heal on melee - Cannot be healed by any other means - Ranged weapon spread is increased, less proficiency with ranged weapons - More damage with axe based weapons - If influenced by a sorcerer, the sorcerer will take damage - If put on sorcerer, his head explodes (can't run the mark on sorc, unless it's time for some weird melee "blood sorceror" shit) Sigil of Khorne -Heal on melee execute/heal on kill/ heal on melee - Cannot be healed by any other means - Ranged weapon spread is increased, less proficiency with ranged weapons - More damage with axe based weapons - Immunity to all magic, beneficial and negative - If influenced by a sorcerer, the sorcerer will take damage - MUST melee a target, enemy or friendly, every so often or the unit will begin to take damage - If put on sorcerer, his head explodes (can't run the mark on sorc, unless it's time for some weird melee "blood sorceror" shit) Those are some examples (although not polished, and the abilities/numbers could be changed out), minus a Mark of Malice. (oh come on, a guy can dream) I would imagine Undivided as simply being markless. This saves the unit points to use in other areas. These are in no way final renditions, and you could do much more them, but you see what I mean? I left off numbers because I don't know the mathematical values of the stats in game down to the last detail. I just want to suggest concepts. If the marks could be upgraded, or conjoined with wargear (As in you must have X mark to use Y item) ((Bile spewers, inferno bolts, blight grenades, combat drugs, blastmasters, manreapers, khorne devoted chain axes, etc.)) you could expand the system heavily. Content is always good, and god devotion is, to me, a big part of playing chaos. I don't think LSM need exact counter items to the marks, I think they need their own meaningful playstyles that can be used to beat/counter the marks. That is to say, I'm a fan of asymmetrical balance, CSM should be distinct from LSM. They should both function well on the battlefield, but other than being SMs, they should do it in different ways.
Not entirely sure what Sigils are supposed to be, unless they're just something that was made up for EC. All classes by default should be able to regenerate a portion of their HP when out of combat. MoN should increase that amount not restrict regeneration. MoSlaanesh should have no real drawbacks other than the cost of the Mark and a possible increase to weapon recoil when firing on the move. As the increased move speed should allow for better positioning against opponents players using it should be able to land critical shots(I.E. head shots, back-stabs) that should improve their damage against all factions rather than a specific one. It would be quite helpful against Eldar, though, as it would give the Marines equivalent speed. MoTzeentch should improve the player's Armor. Rather than auto-unlocking an extra spell slot for the player, players could decide to spend extra on taking more spells by default. The MoT could reduce the Warp cost of spells, allowing them to be used for longer periods/more often. All classes should recover HP when a melee Down/Execution; MoKhorne should improve the amount. A base CSM damaged to 1 HP could heal 10 on their own, 10 through a melee Down and 10 for an Execution, bringing them to 31 out of 40 HP. A MoK CSM rom 1 HP could heal 10 on their own, 15 through melee Down/Execution, bringing them to 40 out of 40 HP. They should still be able to receive healing from other sources but would receive less if they are Psyker/Sorcery-based. Warp Crystals would still heal for full. I use numbers because the majority of numbers/statistics we have in game are wrong if we want to have the best WH40K shooter/slasher game possible so my suggested numbers are the ones that would improve the gameplay. Marks could provide access to otherwise restricted gear such as Blight Grenades only being available to MoN. Dual-wielding melee weapons could be exclusive to the MoK. Etc. Etc. They don't need direct comparisons but in situations where it makes sense they can be used, such as the Blood Angels and Space Wolves having a direct or near-direct comparison to the MoKhorne, while the other 3 SM sub-factions would have an asymmetric comparison.
Not wrong, different. And I'm really glad EC are using their numbers instead of yours. Also if you want it your way go make your own game. GW is handing out licenses like no tomorrow. Go build your vision.
Switching to untested theoretical stats based off a TT game that's not even all that balanced? What could possibly go horribly wrong But back on topic, am I the only one that doesn't really find the Mark of Tzneetch to be helpful, I think that the health loss is a bigger liability that the armor regen.
