Experienced players 'still wrecking' doesn't constitute balance.

Can anyone tell me what the MoNs role is now? What their pros are compared to a stormshield user, who has several?

They are far better anti-ranged than shield, because they are unkitable and they can move faster and live longer while already in CQC. Shieldbro gets in CQC easier because of the shield, but inside its more difficult for him to tank damage while killing everyone. That's easier for MoN of equal skill.

And of course, our opinion is purely subjective. Skill floor for class might been raised up this patch, but i don't think it was too much. Also, skill ceiling diminished, but not too significantly.

Oh, that's a very old thing, i expirienced it all the way back to the february when table quite commonly was showing 17 vs 15 players or smth like this. Has something to do with player joining the game at this moment, but i dunno what exactly. I believe, you can see this all the time if you pay attention to the board

Oh, you do know that heavy bolter was bugged and it did insignificant damage above 5m due to bugged damage faloff? I wouldn't base judgement on that one exactly due to its bugged state

It should be fixed now, so i really feel how HB bites all the time ))

Yep those are good questions to ask.

Tacticals shouldnt really stand too much of a chance in melee/sub 10m department against a melee. They should be forced to retreat and reposition to where they are at the advantage - that is ranges over 10m.

A tacticals ideal range should be the 10-30m department. So if they catch a MoN outside this range and can fire continuously on them, they should be able to drop them. If a MoN catches them inside 10m, they're toast barring low MoN skill vs high tac skill.

Last patch did that hold true? I'd say MoN could run up under fire from perhaps a little bit too far away, but not much. This patch its back to the situation where unless you catch people unawares, or are fighting unskilled players, you're not going to make it up to them under any fire.

So the MoNs niche is half screwed again. Sure if youre already in melee somehow or good at flanking/getting the drop, you can hurt some people if they don't retreat. The fast advance under fire niche has been taken away. The devs expect MoN to have a pocket healer to be able to do this now - I'm pretty sure thats what theyre trying to push, except it just doesn't work, and the dependency is not present on the LSM side.

Contrast this to the stormshield - able to slow advance under fire (barring hard counters) - check. Able to defend narrow chokepoints well - check. Able to do both those solo - check. advantage in 1v1 melee - check.

What is stormshield bonuses? Being kited and inability to cap points. Its so fucking important! I cant count how many times I have killed like 5 enemies in one room and was standing near capture point and could do nothing to contribute to victory. I need tactical. MoN can do you same and CAP. Cap is everything. We play for victory! People who do not see this are blind. Point captute has huge inmpact to the game - when point is under capture, all forces on the map shifts.

If MoN woudnt be able to cap I would say they are useless in current conditio (of course not so useless than current shieldbro with pistol lol). But they can, thats why they stand just in a place where they should stand.

We had the same results at a closer range as well. This one just looked the best. Its all good now, and happy the HB is back to shredding

Sry for interrupting your conversation, but i would like to mention here, that it takes only 5 days to restart conversation/mimimi about balance the mon, the shield, the apothecary and the ... without there isnt any kind of accessories, all factions, all anything. Maybe calm down, see what next patches get us to and if there are all things in, we could restart talking about balance

I think the main problem people are having with this nerf is that, before the patch, they could easily run across the battle field whilst under fire and still have health to spare when they finally get to their target. Now that's not happening, and I think some people are getting upset over it. All I can say to that is: welcome to the life of every other class in the game. Get used to it and adapt.

Now, to answer Markosain's question, the MoN seems to be in the role of a flanker/infiltrator, being a light weight melee focused class that is designed to get up in the faces of the ranged units, while also being a counter to other melee classes trying to do the same thing (at least, that's how I see it).

MoN seems to be back to somewhere around Patch 13 levels of durability, which is pretty reasonable, they die if they run in straight lines but can still soak a fair amount of rounds, supported by a sorc and with the new chain axe they're as terrifying as ever.

They aren't anywhere near as weak as they were in patch 14 and they're not as strong as they were during 15, feels adequately somewhere in between, and I do believe that the chain axe seriously enhances they're effectiveness substantially. It's an amazing weapon, not OP, just really good.

That being said if they do seem to be under performing after a bit longer more tweaking is yet in order for them I guess, it appears to be an extremely fine line to tread with this class.

I have to agree with @ArtemK .

I am not a super awesome player. I usually get a lot of points, because I focus on blowing up tanks whenever possible. However, I am not dissatisfied whenever I get over 1/1 k/d. With MoN, I can get 2/1 to 3/1 k/d, even in this patch, although it is map dependent. I can't do that attacking on Harkus or Blackbolt. I've always hated Blackbolt, because there isn't good cover to try and get into buildings, and there isn't a good place to put rhinos. (Well, there's one good place, but you will definitely be spotted going there, so it isn't going to stay long.)

I honestly think there are more important things to balance than MoN at this point. Sorcerer needs the love.

Let's compare:

Shield can't cap points. Shield is vulnerable when shot from behind or the sides when it has its shield up (and from the front, right side, and back when his shield is down). Shield doesn't have a pistol, you can easily kite him, and you can easily turn around and run from a shield until your allies help you out. He can't sprint after you like MoN can because he needs to keep his shield up if there are people ahead of him. If you out-skill the shield guy in melee (as in, you make him guess wrong), he dies.

Mon can cap. Mon can chase you with his pistol. Mon can sprint across the battlefield because he doesn't need to hold a shield up to get the defensive buff, Mon has a defensive buff already built in. Mon doesn't care which side you shoot him from, the defensive buff is 360 degrees. If you out-skill a Mon in melee (as in, you make him guess wrong), it doesn't matter because he has enough HP pool to guess wrong more times than you. If you stagger a sheildbro, he's dead. If you stagger a Mon, he's fine because he still has so much health.

TL;DR: You had your fun, Chaos ("I play both sides, honest!" ). MoN was broken as hell and this nerf was a long time coming. Hell, I think it's stupid that Mon can still capture points.