I support this 100%. I really hope the Devs consider this change. Their current Marine model's proportions just feel wrong when I look at them.
I really was pleased with THQ's Space Marine models, essentially that is what a SM/CSM should look like in my opinion
Hola! (Sorry if I dont appear as a DEV, I just migrated my account and things seems a bit faulty. I will get it fixed in the morning) So first and foremost: Thanks to all for the feedback! I am super thrilled to see the amount of people who reacted, and furthermore, the amount of people who liked the model of the basic power armour as it stands presently. Although the title of the thread starts with MAJOR ISSUES, which sounds very dramatic and could have been interpreted as negative or pejorative, most comments found herein are very constructive and often positive. Would I have liked that everybody saw the Marine model as the perfect transposition of the miniature toward a given depiction of reality? Yes. But that is never going to happen. We all translate the miniatures into a very personal vision. Yet, this thread is fantastic to give us the pulse on how the community pictures how a space marine should look like in a MMO type setting. If statistically a lot of people have issues with a given point of what we presented, while it does not mean that we won't say "Yes, but that's really how we think it should be", it does not mean either that we won't go ask ourself "Are we wrong on that one?", so rest assured we hear you all, and we want to make you justice and we want you to like the game and everything that's in it. Unfortunately, the terrible thing on this matter is that we will never be able to please everyone, but we will aim at doing so while staying very aware that when you aim too wide you end up not hitting anyone, so there will be choices that some people won't agree with and I sincerly apologise to them for it, knowing (and sharing) their passion for the Warhammer 40, 000 universe. Now, what are those videos of turnarounds of characters? A first public showcase of the basic models we will be using in the game. Up til now, and in the in-game footage you may have seen, we were using temporary models built around a temporary rig using temporary animations. Any new footage you may see for still at least a month will still be using those. Those models helped us narrow our gameplay and identify the many problems we might have animating our characters. Bulky characters like Adeptus Astartes with bulky armour plates on them can have a lot problems of geometries interpenetrations as they move around. And do they move! They don't just walk, run or shoot but must be able to have loads of different and sometimes very extreme behaviours fro such heavy guys. And you can see them from all angles! Throughout our tests, back pack, jump pack and shoulder pads were major challenges. So after much discussion with the animation team, I doodled revised proportions for the power armour which took those constraint into account, we built low poly temp geoemetries, tested them, saw other problems; I redoodled up to the point where we arrived to the line art that has been reproduced several times on this thread (the one where we see the amour and the naked adeptus astartes - Yes, I am glad people generally have positive comments on it). From this model sheet our 3D artist reworked the geometry to achieve the model you now see. And although the camera from the clip might have lead some to believe it was not following the concept, it really does. But the camera is another matter, another one we are still working on... So, what is this model? The first step toward the final model. Will the model as you see it now be the one that will be in the game in 18 months? No. Will it look roughly like it? Yes, but better. Given the fact that we want to offer you as much customisation opportunities as possible, we made it very modular (over 50 separate pieces for a basic naked power armour). Rest assured you will not be exposed to having to build it yourself with that level of granularity, but your experience will be built on it. Why do I tell you that? So that you understand that we can better any piece of the armour without breaking the whole, which, both from a production and follow up standpoint, is fantastic. We recently mocaped all the basic animations of the space marines. They are presently being cleaned up. Once we see how the character reacts to the animations, we will go thru a process of either modifying certain animations or certain geometries so that the final result is top notch. There will be lots of debates between art and animation to decide what will be better for what, all with the goal of making our character the most convincing he can be. Why am i saying all this? To give you a status of where we're at with our characters and where we're going. At this point, we are quite happy with our character; to the point where we decided that A)we could use him as template for the mocap and animation integration and furthermore, B) furthermore, we could show him to you to get feedback. The next step will be A) to see him move in game and pinpoint all that's not up to our expectations and plan the necessary tweaks and B) at the same time, to go thru all the feedback you've given us in a very systematic manner and see a) what is relevant to the direction we're heading to, b) what is artistically and technically feasible and c)will work with our animation constraints. From there, an action list will be made of the changed to be implemented. As we built modular, we will be able to adress most issues separately and surgically so that it does not impair the production of the rest of the game. Waht this says is that there will not be a big reveal of the revised model: From now on, it is going to be a seamless process of iterations and improvements that will go on so that everytime new ingame shootage will be released, little somethings will have changed, hopefully for the best Up til now i've only been talking about the geometry of the character. You also may have noticed that the he looks somewhat blank right now. It's not because of the ceramite. It is not textured and it has no customisation items on it whatsoever, not a single little Imperialis on the torso or a chapter badge on the shoulder, nothing, so he's very far from what you can expect will appear in your game. A lot of texture work is being done presently but a lot of research on our shader and lighting pipeline as well, here too, the process will be iterative. But giant leaps are to be expected. Regarding the backpack, as it is one of the issues that has been discussing at lenght on this thread, the one that is on the model presently is at the same height as it is on the model sheet concept. Given the angle of the camera, I agree it does seems lower and does not convey that Space Marine feel we expect. This is one of the thing we still have to play with. But although it seems straightforward, it's really a tricky matter. Remember that when you will be playing, most of the time you will be seeing your character from the back, possibly with the camera looking slightly down on him. Initially we had the backpack placed exactly like on the miniature (and bigger) but it was very boring as all that we were seeing was that huge backpack - or worse, that humougous jump pack- with two tiny legs. So we've played with its placement and size ratio and will probably will be playing with it for still a while. It's a very delicate thing, as looking at your character in a full frontal way in your customisation screen and with the game camera are two totally different experiences. I look forward to showing you (and seeing for myself) the animated version of the marine. It's the next step of the adventure. Thanks for your support and comments!We see those models all day long, you have the fresh eyes. Keep feeding us!
no drama's thanks for the post and hopefully its cleared a few peoples worries and undoubtably served to only raise new questions I'm sure your about to bombarded with
Happy to hear some dev wisdom Your point is clear enough, for example when we look at the last part of the "Meat The Behaviour Team Part 2" (arriving to minute 4) we can see a Dark Angel model which looks really good in terms of proportions and some of those clipping/geometry issues in a couple of places (like the backpack with a left shoulder plate and the chest with the right shoulder plate). I'm afraid I can better live with minor inter-armour clipping than with a wrong space marine feeling, I understand that those big shoulder pad must be problematic, the miniatures don't move so they look great but a videogame needs dinamic animations, but I believe you just need to take care in the slow animations and some poses as for the fast animations we players won't be able to see those cliping issues. And regarding the following statement: I think again that "Warhammer 40000: Space Marine" is the best reference out there, the customization screen looks great and the 3rd person cam view looked also great and how the others see your model also looked great, for me is more important that the models around have the right look than seeing a big jumpack covering my head. I'm trying to be constructive here, and I'm looking forward to see the game in some months. I trust the bEhaviour team!
God damn if this isn't the best dev post I've seen for a while! Thanks a lot Ghislain! To some of us this was all mostly implied, but its great of you to come out here and say it! Looking forward to more SPESS MAHREEN footage!
i have to aggree that thq did a great job on the models in space marine. the only thing ild update from their system is making sure big orks get bigger as the blood lust hits!
this is looking good! i hope deavs hear us as they say, and will ask us in the future more about the models, if they look fine to us. Yes, i know not everyone will like all things, but a voting can help to find a middle path
