Okay, so this an idea that has popped in my mind recently, concerning the whole veterans thing. Before beginning, I wanna first state that if those changes might happen ingame, I don't want them to appear prematurely in a small patch and spoil the fun of the players who like those weapons with the veterans still not having an update making them worth to be something else than an attention catcher as well as a bag of XP. So this all started with a thread asking the Eldars community what weapons the game lack for their race, the answer was quite surprising in that most of them would make non-sense to be used by normal Avengers or Scorpions, as those weapons are used by the Exarchs of the Temple shrines. A suggestion has popped up that the Veterans Eldars could become the Exarchs and have those weapons that they lack, but the idea would be a bit unfair if only applied to this specific faction, because the others are actually in the same situation except that the weapons are already ingame. The powerfist ? This weapon is supposed to be rare, as well as highly specialised, so it's mainly used by senior space marines and are not field in huge number. Same goes for Chaos where Space Marines basically fight each others over those weapons or Terminator Armor, and the Ork powerklaw is more of a Nob weapon than a boyz weapon as well as costing a lot of teeth (because yes, actually, we are fighting simple boyz orks, not nobs controlled by players even as veterans) so it would make sense if we considered both the veterans of Eldars and Orks as respectively Exarchs and Nobz and named that way ingame. There is actually a lot of weapons that are supposed to be rare and could be only used depending on the faction by their vets. Which ones ? Well it's up to debate but for me the powerfist is in good line for all faction, maybe the plasma rifle for Chaos as it's a weapon that require a lot of maintenance and care that CSM doesn't normally have or show, but as for the exemple, this would also be unfair to make it a vet weapon and let the LSM have a plasma rifle as a possibility for normal Space Marine. The solution could be to tweak it's stats a bit by making it more powerful (possessed by a demon, dark secrets of the Dark Mechanicum used...) than it's LSM counterpart that in exchange could be fieled more. Most one shot weapons except the lascannon are pretty rare in the fluff, so for me it would make sense to give them to experienced Veterans, Faithful unholy Champions, and big Nobz. And well Eldars doesn't even have those kind of weapons that could be locked in game for now except the Dark reaper gun so... The reason I'm putting this up is not only to allow more diversity of class and weapons for Eldar, but also to avoid stupid situation like what happened to me Yesterday when I fall on with my tactical on a group of 4 boyz orks ALL geared with powerklaws. The incredible sheer amount of damages from those weapons would not need to be nerfed as they would be a pretty rare thing seen on the battlefield, and yet, horrible to face if someone field his vet with it but not impossible to stop. This would allow us to keep our powerful weapons fluffwise without having the need to nerf them. What do you think ? I really wish to discuss about it, and what weapons could be selected for each race to become Veterans only and staying worth taking them against the other races. As a reminder, we are imaginating that this idea is getting set for the future Veterans tweaking, not the actual veterans that doesn't feel useful enough except for the extra 400 LP. So no need to say things like "It would mean we would only be able to play those weapons for 20 seconds in game at best", we are basing ourself on the idea that Veterans have a great survivability here or can be used more than once in the future.
I agree with weapons like claws and fists but not plasma weaponry. That is more or less standard use for specialists squad who are generally normal marine with specific training instead of being weapons like the fist. Another weapon to add would be the storm bolter as i don't believe that generally available to most marines not even specialized squads ( might be wrong here). However these vet only weapons should either have lp be lowered with stats being lowered or same lp with lower stats to make it easier for newer players facing these vets. A good amount new players would go oh i want that and progress to vets but usually with today's crying generation a similar if not slighty less or mor pop would cry op, P2W , etc and quit the game instead of trying to get to vets which is bad for game long term.
Not a new idea, and not an idea that can be implemented anymore. Locking certain weapon types behind veteran loadouts would have been possible before launch, but if you do it at this stage and "take away" weapons that people have already been using... well lets just say it wouldn't go over well.
Yes, powerful weapons should be Veteran, Elite or Hero only. Not only because of lore that not all base marines (units) have access to them, more to let these weapons powerful as they should be. Balance can also be achieved by limiting these weapons on the battlefield. The bigger question is, what kind of weapons (Tier 3 upwards?) and how to implement the restrictions?
Yep that's what I thought that I wasn't the first to think that, and I know this problem, but I still think that if we can discuss about the possible weapons behind it, most of those weapons are already a big amount of RAAAAAAGGGEEE in game by people facing them so I still believe the change could be possible. There will be rage, but not as much as if we actually nerf those weapons to uncannon level. I agree for the Stormbolter. My idea for the plasma was not to vet limit it for LSM, but for CSM in exchange of a boost compared to it's LSM counterpart to make it really count as from what I know Chaos got some trouble fielding those weaponry as they must loot them somewhere and they don't necessarily have all the necessary gear to properly maintain them, but I could be wrong. The best would be to find a weapon that could be vet locked for tactical LSM and not CSM, but I don't really see anything that could stand for this position, so only the boost seems a possibility if we ever apply it.
If LSM has access to it so should CSM. The whole cant maintaining equipment etc means jack shit considering that in the warp they can make such things like demon titans etc and hence the plasma weapons for csm could just be changed to have demonic bits on it to simulated "Made in warp" efffect and parts = hey demon i feed you this soul/ warp energy to repair your self. Also for Las cannons its should be for normal as well as its not really considered a rare weapon but specialized like plasma weaponry. Seeing as CSM and LSM share a lot of the same toys they should mirror each other on the weapon types they keep to their vets for balance sake more than any thing else. Trying to just do it purely by class would f over balance big time.
Special Weapons, such as Melta and Plasma, should cost more LP than current but still be available to non-Veteran loadouts.
Less weapons would mean less options. Less options means less fun in general. Right now I could be a regular tac marine. I could take a bolter, a melta gun, a plasma gun, a stalker bolter, a grav gun, or a storm bolter. If you take away the rarer weapons I could bring a bolter, a plasma gun, and a stalker bolter. Suddenly my options are slimmed down and it becomes more dull. Don't get me wrong, I love my bolter but unlike the Halos which were made primarily with veterans in mind the weapons were not. Take them away and a lot of flavor is lost since you only get 1 vet spawn. And if they did become veteran only then I'd expect those guns to be able to mow down squads of enemies head on in the right hands. Otherwise what's the point?
The point about it is regarding of the fluff. Some of those weapons are supposed to be batshit insanely powerful and some actually are, like the powerfist. It is NOT normal to see 8 of those weapons on the battlefield carried by regular troopers. Hell if the game was fluff the stormbolter would be able to tear through a rhino. The point about this idea is to unlock the shitty situation the eldars are in where they cannot have new weapons without raping their fluff, and the idea that instead of permanently nerfing or buffing such weapons because some kids are crying over how powerful they are, reducing their numbers is a way to give more importance to veterans thanks to their weaponry, as well as making them very unique. The idea is to give those weapons a reason to be powerful weapons and give some interests back into veterans. As it is now for LSM, bolter is versatile enough to fullfill whatever role you wanna play, plasma can be really powerful, and the stormbolter is just a smallest version of the devastator heavy bolter but less powerful. Those guns are not meant to be present in high quantity.
So because eldar have limited weapon options we limit the weapon options of everyone else? Personally I'd like to see the Eldar get more weapons instead...
