I'm going to go ahead and say it. You get gimped twice when you use this mark. The first is that you don't get help from Sorcery, which means you can only heal in combat or by resupplying. That's fine. However, you also get gimped because when you take the MoK, there is no downed state. You die immediately. You do not pass go, you do not collect 200 credits. That's not fine. Without Manslayer you can't outheal so much as a single bolter, let alone your melee combatant, and even then it's a chainaxe so it's slow as balls. So aside from the lifesteal that barely works, what do you get in return for the double-dip nerfing? A piddling 20 health. The fucking MoN gives that, and an extra 20 toughness for good measure in exchange for a stamina regen debuff that hurts you far less than no health packs and the WAAAGH's downside with none of the upsides.
I disagree. Its a very good mark to sustain yourself when there is no sorc around, with manslayer or tooth of khorne you can heal yourself a lot and quickly. The only thing I'd do with it is executions giving 100% health, other then that, its great mark.
Therein lies my issue. It's only really viable with those two weapons, which are both in the 30k box if I'm not mistaken. The other marks do not have their usefulness gimped in this manner. 20 health is enough for the lack of heals, but not for the WAAAGH's downside.
I dont consider "no downed state" a bad thing, you're a Khorne Bezerker, you should be ramboing all the time, and when you die, you go "F**k you LSM, you aint getting 100xp from executing me bitch" Ok constructive criticism, I would prefer if Axes swung a bit faster, charge attack atleast, I always get gunned down before I can land the swing :/
Would like it if you could move and attack fully while "downed", but never get back to positive health, so once your bleeding out, you leech or die. All the marks need more interesting mechanics instead of just number tweeks, though the uniqueness of mark of Slanesh fits well enough.
You mentioned the Mark of Nurgle. MON is sweet because the associated weapons and gear you can wear when bearing the MON are complimentary to the defensive buffs and fit with the lore. The main problem with MOK is the fact that you get absolutely ZERO, nothing, nada, zilcho from the Mark when you're at full health, other than 20 health. The life leech does NOTHING for the user when we're at full health. Considering unbuffed default bolters can do over 60 damage per headshot and the fact that buffed bolters can do over 100 damage per head shot, that +20 health for the MOK is laughable. Also consider that we can equip a life leech mod for 100LP without the downsides(no incoming heals, no downed state), what's the point of 150LP Mark of Khorne for melee users? With these facts established I feel we should consider adding +15 damage and +15 armour penetration to every melee attack when the MOK bearer is at full health. When we're not at full health we do the life leech. There's also the Manslayer Axe, which is a somewhat redundant weapon and doesn't really complement the MOK bearer because it simply does MORE life leech. Again, what is the user gaining from the Manslayer Axe(300 LP) and the Mark of Khorne(150 LP) when they are at full health? They are getting exactly 20 health for 450 LP when the MOK user is at full health. The full story here: http://forum.eternalcrusade.com/thr...he-mark-doing-when-we-have-full-health.66221/
Those 2 weapons and Pfist!! you can still use psword or Paxe or modded Chain Axe until you unlock those melee weapons tho. not being able to get healed really isn't such a big deal when your operating around the grp as a flanker or roamer where there usually aint a sors to back you up anyways. This comes into play a lot when you manage to worm your way into the final cap zone on fortress maps. ( you can always find me there killing your Hbolters and plasma dudes thee hee) For frontline assaults that can be healed we have MoN assaults .. which are like walking meat shields. the waaarg downside is kinda shit when you die in a situation where you could have been ressed but ..honestly if you play MoK like it's intended to be played you will be to balls deep or to far from the main grp flanking people for that anyways so its basicly just giving the old Middle finger to your killers since they won't get exp for executing you. What you do gain with the axe + mark is the ability to take damage and losing your armor shield and some HP while approaching your target. you will simply reset your lost hp upon connecting with the opponent. Many offerings to Khorne I make with my MoK TA would not be possible without me surviving without that life steal to reset my lost HP. You also get the ability to heal yourself when you are walking around with less than full HP which happens a lot actually. From a LP PoV in the current LP costs system 30% melee LL from MoK would cost 300 LP and the 20 Hp 120 LP *** The 40 % LL from the axe would cost 400LP. Most of that LL you basically get for free on the the axe as it costs only 100 Lp more than a regular chain axe , it gets 300 LP worth of LL on top of the cost of a chainaxe with just 10% LL and all it pays for it is being MoK limited.. which is a good deal for MoK because he so happens to be a MoK. So In total a MoK guy with MoK chainaxe loadout worth 1000 LP will have a LP inflation in stats worth 570 Lp. 150 costing mark that has 420 LP worth of stats on it 300 LP chain axe that has 300 extra LP worth of LL So essentially stat wize his loadout would cost 1570 Lp ....that's more than a vet gets to spend on gear. It pays for this by not getting heals & dying when downed and not bleeding. and having to use an axe weapon.. which is a big deal for some people but not for everyone. Player skill aside being an axe comes with the downsides of being an axe..it's not the best weapon for every situation that role is for the sword. which is Op on its own for simply being too good at everything but that's a discussion for another place and time. The axe being MoK only as a price for the stats is a total non issue to the Mark of Khorne wielder. This is not such a bad deal dudes that Mok has going for it. If we would to carry this design logic over to the Let's talk about MoT thread and apply the same design logic to a Asp Sors Force Sword for MoT we would be looking at a MC force sword weapon that can potentially add 300 Lp worth of armor to the wielder ( around 45 armor if i'm not mistaken ? ) While only having to be MoT limited use as a price for all that and cost 300 Lp like all unique items of similar class do. 0_o It also puts in perspective how much of a shit state MoT is actually in.. it gets how much LP for free for ist down sides? it has how many specialised weapons to make it function ? Yeah... like non...? What i would really like tho is HP gain from Executes. why this isn't a thing is totally beyond me. And maybe moving the 70% total LL in melee away from being forced into using MoK axe + Mark combo. Instead integrating it into MoK as a base instead of the 30% melee and 15% ranged so it works on all melee weapons to add some play variety to MoK. And than changing the Mok chain axe into something else. so people would still wanna use it over say a P sword. something like giving 100% life gained from executing people and + 20 ap. or turning you invulnerable while executing people , that would be F'ing beast. And than ofc giving the 15% ranged LLback to teeth of khorne to keep that the way it currently functions. They can even reduce it to 60% instead of 70% total because that way you can still just take chain axe + LL mod and have a old skool chain axe of khorne experience for the same LP cost. ***( I know I am not addressing the ranged LL . it would cost 150 LP if ranged LL has the same LP cost as melee LL which could very well not be the case , I certainly don't know the ranged LL's LP value) Founders Forum Discussion. Now that's not nice...
This, honestly. I mean, fuck, why not just make chainaxes as fast as swords, but make all of them require the Mark of Khorne?
