Sorry about the cancerous quality of the pic but in today's stream we saw that :



i think around 50% winrate, where chaos i sitting at, is what we should be aiming for. On a personal note, i don't feel like they are OP either. No problems with abadon grace either since it doesn't have time to proc meaningful fire damage for me to notice (kills as fast as base auto)

No don't nerf them, give LSM and Orks the means to compete.

As part of a broader balancing i've proposed I think space marines should get +15% armour and +5% hit points. Whilst Chaos gets +10% armour +10% hit points. This will weight things slightly towards the space marines favour and might even be enough to balance them both out.

Whilst i do feel that chaos is slightly stronger than the loyalists it's not by much, i feel they are pretty close overall.

Chaos needs a tiny nerf but that's it, probably to do with Abaddon's Grace and sorcerers, but that's it.

Honestly as much as I'd LIKE to cry nerf on the CSM, I feel they are actually the most complete faction. If anything, every other faction needs to be raised up to their level. They are completely well rounded, versatile and able to tackle any challenge. The only other faction that comes close is Eldar but that is for obvious reasons and when they finish patching/fixing Eldar they will be on the same level as CSM. Then we just need to boost LSM and Orks and we will have a nice well balanced game.

PC does need addressing but as stated earlier, that isn't a CSM isolated issue. Also as far as abaddons grace goes, as frustrating as that damn gun is, every faction has their infuriating DoT specialty weapon. That is not the issue, those balance themselves out.

If you nerf plasma cannon, then nerf the one-shot rokkit. Oh, and nerf Ork melee animations in general, because they make no sense.

Honestly, would rather see Eldar nerfed and loyalist SM buffed before looking at Orks or CSM, since those two are generally decently balanced whereas the first two are badly balanced. Actually, I would like some core mechanics to be changed altogether before examining faction balance: stuff like normalizing attack speed across all factions (sure, let Eldar move faster, or Orks slower, but all characters should attack at the same animation speed when using weapons of the same tier), removing all lock-on, removing clanging, etc.

Doesn't really matter how many times you've been nerfed if you're still sitting at 50% win rate heh. Sometimes things DO need nerfs.

As I said earlier though, I think CSM are mostly fine. Just something feels a little off on Sorcs power output and AC is...possibly too good. It's stepping on HB toes a bit I think.

It's already happening? Cool, maybe they saw one of my posts then!

Oh, remove all the DoT functions on melee attacks too. Or at least make them apply consistently, rather than sometimes applying through clangs, throuh d-bash, and etc. Nothing more frustrating than d-bashing an Apoth or a Painboy (or a Wolf Priest with Rites of Fire) and dying from their DoT after killing them.