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Is it possible to win fortress on offense these days?

Discussion in 'Orks' started by UniverseBear1, May 24, 2017.

  1. UniverseBear1 Recruit

    I love da boys but I have lost every single fortress map I've had to play offense on for what seems like weeks now. If fortress comes up on the loading screen and we're attacking I think "ah great, a guaranteed loss." It's the same every time, struggle to take out people on the walls, struggle to take A, after all the struggling there is not enough time to widdle down tickets on B and the defenders win...every...single...time. It doesn't matter how many times I top score, get assassin or other commendations, there is just no way to win.

    My leading theory for why this is is because we suck so much at long range fighting and so much of fortress is just that. The two tools we did have to compensate (deffcannon and ace dakka) were nerfed. SM can shoot us around corners with plasma but we can't shoot them. The ace dakka used to be excellent at taking out people from range but now it doesn't suppress so we auto-lose gunfights vs heavy bolters and other heavy weapons.

    We are a bit tougher then most races but not tough enough to compensate for the huge gap we have to cross to get in effective weapons range on fortress. Who cares if you're tough and good at close range shooting if you're at quarter health when you get there? Even if you do somehow manage to get into close shooting range with your health and shield intact sm and chaos get combibolters and stormbolters that rip people apart at close range. Where is our long to medium range version of the boltgun then? Seems only fair if the devs are going to give chaos and sm what amounts to basically an ork countering gun.

    Using shields to absorb fire and get in close is fairly ineffective because our shields have awful durability.

    Another important reason I feel we lose every single game we play attacking on fortress is that our trukk's are huge! Every other race have vehicles with low profiles but ours stick out into the sky. There is just no hiding that, other races actually can pretty effectively hide their transports but we simply cannot and that swings the matches in favor of the enemy team in a really huge way that I don't think the devs are thinking about in terms of balancing.

    Finally, and this is the smallest gripe, we don't have weapons that do damage to fortifications. The imbalance of that should be obvious to anyone.

    I don't mind playing a race that is a little weaker then most (with the nerfs and lack of players) but when there is scenario tailor made to see you lose every time it gets...frustrating. Is it just me or do other people find this to be true as well? I'm not a bad player at all, I'm almost always at least in the top 4 players but I just cannot get a win no matter how much I do. I once got over 10000 xp with over 30 kills and still lost.
  2. Lootmasta Kaptin_Pokkets Arkhona Vanguard

    I routinely win on Fortress maps actually, but that is due to attempts to coordinate other players. Unorganized attacks do NOT work well on Fortress maps. They require teamwork over all, and in most PUG matches I've found very few (if any) players willing to communicate with other players, either via the voice system or text chat. That'll leave you with a high disadvantage because the enemy doesn't need to make a coordinated defense, they just have to send as much bullets in your direction as they can. So give orders via text chat if you can, preferably in all caps (it's proper Orky and it reads better on the screen). Many newer players will respond to someone who acts like they know what they're doing.

    Second issue is Suppression. Orks have 2 useful weapons for Suppression, however most Lootas will avoid those weapons for the ones with the highest damage potential. While this is Orky, it isn't effective. More Plazma Deffguns and Dakka Deffguns should be used to suppress the enemy heavy weapon teams so the rest of the boyz can advance. As the damage-dealers were nerfed, Orks need to rely more on these weapons to make it inside.

    Third issue is NOBODY IS WILLING TO GO INSIDE! Too many times I have lost a Fortress match simply because all the other players were too chicken to run in and swamp the enemy in numbers. They didn't want to risk death, so they sit outside and take potshots. Highly ineffective for Orks, we need to rush a point with bodies instead of hanging back. That will get you victory even if some die, as Bolters are better at Mmidrange placing shots than they are at much closer ranges, where our weapons excel at spitting out a lot of rounds in a short period of time.

    So your solutions are thus:
    Ephaistos likes this.
  3. Kageshira Kageshira Active Member

    Well, when people don't listen to all caps "Don't destroy the gates yet", of course you can't win.
  4. Lootmasta Kaptin_Pokkets Arkhona Vanguard

    That, ultimately, is a design flaw the devs REALLY need to work on.
    Redhatter and Ephaistos like this.
  5. Teef Trooper909 Recruit

    Ace Dakka no longer suppresses and Kannon is no longer used thats why.Whos going to take Dakka deffguns and plasma deffguns?They are the worsed heavy weapons in the game.
  6. Lootmasta Kaptin_Pokkets Arkhona Vanguard

    I beg to differ, as I've found the Plazma Deffgun to simply melt through Marines pretty quickly. Dakka Deffgun is also quite good against Eldar. In any case, the point of those weapons isn't to KILL so much as SUPPRESS. None of our other weapons cause decent Suppression except for those two weapons, and our boyz are routinely cut down by Heavy Bolter fire while trying to storm the entrances. If those weapons are Suppressed, they can't accurately target the boyz and so we're more likely to win.

    Ork players need to stop going for straight damage and start understanding the UTILITY some of our weapons have, especially as the two top guns we had got brought down a peg.
  7. Teef Trooper909 Recruit

    Thing is if you go to any other faction there suppression weapons are a different world to da Orks.They kill,are 100% dead accurate and suppress.Plazma is just merely ok because its better then the dakka deffgun but its nowhere near better than a heavy bolter and its alot more expensive to for no good reason.

    I agree with your second point but c'mon whos going to willingly put themselves bottom of the table just to suppress?Granted I do it sometimes (not a fan of heavy's in general) and I see others here and there but I honestly wouldn't expect anyone else to.

    They had suppression on Ace dakka because they knew damn well the other suppression guns sucked but they nerfed AD and Kannon and didn't give us nothing to compensate.aaaand now we struggle obviously.
    Ironangel2k3 likes this.
  8. UniverseBear1 Recruit

    Here's da ting d'oh. I can't be suppressing heavy weapons and going inside to fight the umies at the same time. It's really one or the other. Also, specific to SM, suppressing heavy weapons is basically the same as holding a giant sign that reads "please snipe me." I can't use voice chat because I live in rural Canada and I actually have to play games through my phone data because my other internet is simply too slow (don't cry for me, I'm already dead inside). As you can imagine that doesn't leave me with much wiggling room so I have to cut down on non-essential data hungry features like voice chat. I DO however type in chat quite frequently. I have told people to stop being cowards and push. People won't listen or aren't paying attention to chat. The bottom line is that if you have to organize a complex team strategy of suppression cover and specific actions to achieve the same result that another race can achieve by just pubbing then something is wrong.

    And that didn't even address the other very real problems of the trukk's huge outline, not being able to damage fortifications with weapons and chaos and sm getting very effective close combat combibolters and stormbolters. Sure the bolters are good at medium range and ours are good at close range, but they also get good close range guns if they wish to use them (and they often do) while we don't get a medium range alternative. SM gets a long range sniper, a medium range bolter and a close range stormbolter while we get multiple close range guns...I need an explanation of how that is balanced.
    Ironangel2k3 likes this.
  9. Teef Trooper909 Recruit

    Its Asymmetrical balance.Asymmetrical as in if its good and its not a space marine weapon it gets nerfed to uselessness.

    Nah honestly though the asymmetrical is what makes this game interesting to me,they just need to get the balance part right.

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