I'm not doubting people use it heavily just games I'm in don't seem to have very many, of course that's just my games not others But I can see chaos doing it and yes we love to win in any way we can "evil laughter"
A friend warned me about the autocannon but I love it so much. After tasting it against me I've pretty much just thought all they had to do was slightly lower the fire rate so it's not also a good close range lmg to use granted jetpacked units still have an easier time against it at close range and so does any person who can aim decently with other lmgs or know how to not go into killzones. Personally I believe the cannon belongs in long range and should remain so and a RoF nerf nothing too crazy though would more than likely balance out.
What does the low rate of fire have to do with it? It has higher DPS, penetration and has a faster TTK (in comparison to the HB). Are you meaning because you may miss more shots as the enemy closes distance? It seems pretty accurate to me, both when using it and when hit by it. Regardless of the range and/or movement of enemy (unless they are dodge rolling or moving erratically as you mention). Agreed. But this is universal.
Agreed, I think @Gazrick is a bit off there. If they've a class that's 50% of the playerbase, it's raptors. I think havocs are about proportional to the rest of the classes, that is, 20% of CSM players use heavy weapons at best. However, when they do it's almost always autocannons or AG. You rarely see a chaos heavy bolter, not even the teeth of khorne, and no big meltas or plasmacannons anymore. I rarely even see lascannons. Personally, I don't think it's OP as an orc main. It's a bit like our Ace Dakka. With the insane suppression feature as it is, I would say that the heavy bolter trumps them a bit. Not in killing power, but in utility, and that's the tradeoff that makes it worth it. It should be that if you're aiming at someone with a heavy bolter, they get suppressed. Not so currently, you just have to fire in some direction and almost everyone that see the heavy bolter user firing are suppressed. It's just insane, and unfortunately more so for orkz for some buggy reason. Still, neither weapon is OP, I feel they're fairly good as they are. Some tweaks could be done, but mostly on shuriken cannons, dakka deffguns and maybe a tiny tiny bit on the plasma deffgun to bring them up to par with Ace Dakka, Autocannon, AG, heavy bolters and grav cannons. If one tweaks anything downwards, it has to be compensated for elsewhere to the heavy classes or they become even less competitive than they already are in a melee heavy environment. Like, less windup time, better accuracy while on the move (particularly Dark Reapers), and the ability to defend themselves in melee. Because despite what @KillSlim says, there is a significant windup time and a significant accuracy penalty for most heavy weapons unbraced, and even more so when moving and firing.
You know what would be cool? If we could have the stats-guy show us data for this topic. How often does AC get used? How many AC are Abbandons Grace? How do they fare in combat? Good, Bad, Normal? Thing is, we only can talk about our experiance, wich differs a lot. But stats should be accurate when asked the right questions, or?
Well put I would also agree with the raptor part more so than the heavy percentage then again all factions have their unique weapons to them and why shouldn't they be entitled to special stats, ex chaos autocannon high dmg heavy recoil and an alright rate of fire. While say lsm gets grav, low dmg high pen and snare. It all works out in the end and for your second part on the weapons I agree with strongly. Even when I use my other characters autocannon seems more op when I use it than used against me.
It definitely can The highest effective health a non vet tac can get is 392 with 125 toughness (less then AG pen, artificier, iron halo and all armor/health trinkets) or 382 with 135 toughness (5 more then AG pen which should reduce AC damage by 2.25% ie barely anything, relic, compact gen all armor/health trinkets). Do note that these builds will have very few points over for anything else and is unlikely to be used by many. A headshot deals 266 damage at the best of circumstances (under 12 meter and pen exceeding toughness) so two headshots are are 532 plus two shots deal 60 extra damage from the dot, for a total of 592 damage. Very Dead max hp Marine. One headshot and one body shot in the best of circumstances does 399 damage (390 with relic armor) plus 60 from dot for a total of 459. Dead max hp marine. At the lowest damage range a headshot deals 209 damage and a basic shot 97, so that's 306 plus 60 from dot for a total of 366, (barely) Alive max hp marine! but if you double headshot it's 418 plus 60, ie 478, so even at max range you can two shot a max hp marine. The only thing you may not be able to two shot even during relatively good circumstances might be health and toughness stacking orks (due to headshots doing less bonus damage) and veterans.
The theoretical TTK may be the same. But, you cannot deny that there is a far larger reaction time window between being hit with an AC and that of an HB. Well, I suppose you "could" deny it, but anyone with even a sliver of practical experience with both weapons will just laugh at you.
Dude, if you think AC is fine, state so and let it be. This is not the first Thread about AC and probally wont be the last until something is changed. You think all of those Thread-creators or people who report similar experiances with the AC are a bunch of whiners and Noobs? If yes, then please step out of this forum, as we all just whine. But if not... don't you think there is a point to it? If multiple people say so?
Lol me of all Orks? Not sure if I should be worried or honoured here. The True TTK of the HB is; 1.3 seconds. The True TTK of the AC is; 1.05 seconds. I'm not going to squabble over such a difference, of course. In terms of capabilities, the only difference I notice particularly between the two weapons is that the AC sometimes kills me mid swing. We all know I use the Klaw so it swings slow as shit, you may now laugh and point fingers. If I can kill a HB user I can kill an AC user, no doubt. The skills required are very similar. Be that as it may, I am sick to death of seeing AC users in CSM teams. I see tons of em and they bore me. If it wasn't for the spamming I wouldn't have been interested. Let me make this clear - no OP weapon will save you from my wrath. I've killed you all before - I'll kill you all again. In fact, I purposefully hunt those of you using the "flavour of the month" weapons. There was a time when all I would kill are Plasma Cannons. Those were the days. Now I hunt FistJPAs, Sunrifle Hawks, Vengeance SB Tacs and AC Havoks. When I'm not playing Orks I hunt Big Shootas if I get the chance. I'm never wrong. The spam. The boredom. Your idiotic faces as I ram my Klaw into your faces and throw you over a ledge (even as your ally shoots me). Holy shit +1 for honesty.
