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Is a Slaanesh Traitor Marine for practical purposes a much better Dire Avenger?

Discussion in 'General Discussion' started by Nosfantor, Apr 17, 2017.

  1. Safreadis Safreadis Arkhona Vanguard

    What was the point again? I can't recall ><'
  2. Slird Slird Active Member

    It was some humor, because as hawk you really don't have AV possibilities. Hawks main role is fast attack and control over battlefield. Quote talks to you about why FD can't cap points. DA is backbone of eldar forces, not FD.
    Safreadis likes this.
  3. Drake De Molina Drake_De_Molina Steam Early Access

    We misunderstood each other here. Not nade, beacon.
    2. Meanwhile it heal so much that it give near half of a HP bar when the life goes down, giving a huge advantage in fight. Instant deployment, meaning it can be instantly placed against an impromptu opponent. And the Apoth go straight back to shooting. I'll pass the problem to seek it since it's not a big ass green canister like the Ork one.
    3. As far as I remember only Shuriken weapons are buffed. The unique tempest would be an OHK weapon if the buff worked on it.
    And when Eldar flank, it's not a "lets all rush by another door", "it's lets split up between all those entrances". Good luck to reset the buff on all of your mates.
    4. You have 'just another 2 tacts', who buff and heal and have a very decent (/s) damage output. Eldar go for dmg mitigation, LSM go for armor and heal buff. Different way of buff, same result: more survivability. Except the Tact will defend himself reliably. It's not like either the narcessium or the bolter are bad weapons.

    DA is the backbone, but we got other class that do the work better than him, so we keep it to cap.
  4. Slird Slird Active Member

    1. Medinades have cd(18sec), very short period of life(6sec) but provide good regen (zombinade). Beacon have long cd (40sec), long period of life (40sec) and provide slow regen. Abiding beacon have longer period of life (60sec). It is most defensive loadout. Useful, but not even close to damage mitigation. We still don't have efficient path to use our surv vial, because it is melee range single person cast.
    2. Useful, but not even close to stacked damage mitigation. Heal does not affect armor and you need time to stand up from grave. Eldar do it with embolden not much harder or slowly. You still can destroy it with any non-melee damage. All eldar dreams about precision ("boltar so strong..."), so you dont miss. =\ We still don't have efficient path to use our surv vial, because it is melee range single person cast.
    3. Tempest already near OHK weapon. I mange to buff more then 5ppl with my warlock. What I do wrong?
    4. You can get more than one gun for your warlock, without actually firing. Warlock is a dedicated support unit. If you want to shoot - go for DA and dont forget say "thx" to your squad warlock.

    You lie about DA.
  5. Drake De Molina Drake_De_Molina Steam Early Access

    1. both are zombienade/beacon as it auto rez anything around it. We don't have the same definition of "slow".
    2. Heal does not affect armor but heal regen even during a gun fight. It give more survive ability in a middle of a fight. Eldar dream about precision because for the damage falloff they got, they should be at least be able to have a low spread. That's right make me believe than a less than a second deployment mono heal is hard to use...
    3. Normal is a 3 shot attack, all 3 need to connect and it has low aoe dmg. So except if all 3 shots connect you will not be downed. And a simple buff of your armor or life will let your survive all 3. The unique one, is a mono shot (300 dmg on one projectile vs 120 on 3), doesn't down in one shot, overheat faster. And for a supposed mortar, has a low range (all hail Kannon mortar range).
    I manage too, but during an assault when everyone take a position to get a good field of fire, they are generally not stacked in a way I can buff them all.
    4. Because Apoth is not a dedicated support? ho no I forgot, being a SM and having a bolter make him a Tactical Healer without the ability to cap...

    Not even close about DA. It's a potentially good tool, but wrongly built for what it's supposed to do.
  6. Slird Slird Active Member

    1. You have. Embolden. It is middle between medinade and beacon because of eldars low hp. Basic Renewer heal like medinade.
    2. Learn you tools. Embolden acts like moving zombinade and Renewer is personal ranged burstheal.
    Vial is not "less than a second deployment mono heal". If it not obvious haw much it harder than enhance - i cant help you at all.
    3. I said "near OHK. Via lag you can connect all 3 shots and it will be instakill. Unique one just guarantees killing injured marines. In middle of fight most of units already injured (of course, not only marines). Any case, it isn't clear OHK, and I didn't mean it.
    If you manage to buff more then 5 ppl - you already better then apothecary. Buff duration is 40 sec. You support your part of troops, not all of troops. And you can keep buff on line all time.
    Are you not noobs like LSM as you all say? So your team can get it.
    4. Exactly. It is dedicated healer, but share his support duties with tacticals, like they share combat possibilities.

    You blaming DA but it works. I suppose you even can't figure out why and when. Maybe you simple liar. =)
  7. Drake De Molina Drake_De_Molina Steam Early Access

    1. Embolden is not better than the beacon in term of hp/sec. It's more efficient in term of % regen/sec but it's only because Eldar have a low hp base.
    2. Renewer is not a burstheal. It's a channeling heal based on time. And vial is less than a second deployment mono heal. Slower on yourself but fast as hell on allies, and it's full life. And plz, you need your target to stay still? Every time I played my Priest, everyone stayed still when I healed them, it's not like they had to stay still for more than one sec for a full heal + buff.
    3. It's easy to put the shit on the back of the lag. All 3 need to hit or else it's not a down, it doesn't kill either. OHK is One Hit Kill, normal tempest need 3 hits to Down, not to Kill. Unique Tempest need 2 hits to Kill and the first doesn't Down. If one of two projectiles hit with the aoe and not the projectile, the target is Down and need a third shot to be killed.
    I like how you represent the Apoth buff like something forbidden to do compare to Warlock's buff. It's a mono buff, fucking hell it's longer to apply than an aoe one, but in any case, it doesn't mean you don't have to do it.
    4. ..., if he's a dedicated sup, why do they give him a bolter? He had already what's needed to defend himself, a pistol and a sword. He couldn't fight at long range? Well, maybe because it's not his job.
    So far PainBoyz can do their job without a shotta even if they have big downgrade compare to Apoth.
    No wonder why LSM have a problem with buffs, their dedicated sup is busy shooting someone when he should be giving some genes to his allies.

    He doesn't have the impact that an assault is supposed to have, other Eldar class have a much bigger impact, the easiest example is a fuegan's resolve FD... and it has only a 15 meters range.
    Duly tested against organized opponents.

    If you're now going to call "liar", we're gonna stop here before you switch to insult.
  8. Slird Slird Active Member

    1. Eldar go for damage mitigation, so Embolden better in term of ehp/sec.
    2. Renewer is powerful enough to call it burst heal. And it is safe range heal. Vial range is close so target need to stay still. In other case target just leave range and cast fail. Vial have wind up time like 2 sec, not less a sec. Ii heal fast , it is true, but close and personal. Range heal more effective in most times.
    3. I dont mean tempest is really OHK. It just close to it in terms of time, but still "no".
    We have vials and use it, but it isn't so effective like you mean.
    4. Warlock buff damage and have damage output in this terms. Warlock have more ehp/damage output than apothecary. Apoth doesn't buff damage and still need to shot. Like PainBoyz needs too. Actually, PainBoyz have "little dirty bolter" in their armory, much more effective then shury pistol and capable to fight. Warlock have more support possibilities in their arsenal, best tools across a board.

    Melta can be goOod in close range but ... it has only 15 meters range. =) Badly tested. You can adapt some tactics to use it, but not all and not always. Fuegans Resolve is unique weapon, but you still can use

    Actually, I'm said MAYBE. It is just because you have lack of arguments in this part. In most times i prefer stop talking, not start insult opponent. Maybe I can be rude sometimes, but it because of my lack of language knowledge, in most cases. It is not hard to apologise for mistakes, so i always can bring it to table. =)

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