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In Development: Scream While Dying (TM) - Updated

Discussion in 'General Discussion' started by Oveur, Nov 30, 2017.

?

But Angron can be nice?

  1. No.

  2. Seriously. No.

  3. No. You are totally getting banned for not following the rules.

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  1. Delgear Steam Early Access

    no but he was using a derogatory tone for league as if it was never competitive or a good game. as if to say it was a "normies game". sure mobas are popular ow but it was a mechanically sound and difficult game in its earlier iterations (when it grew fastest). its losing steam now because its doing the same thing we did that railroaded our success .... killing off play styles to make it easier to make garbage content faster.

    every time you slice off a play style and stop supporting it you lose a chunk of your base .... we have a smaller base than league so it killed us faster.
  2. Delgear Steam Early Access

    TBF to me i had been giving mostly the same tune for weapon diversity of role and strategic options /// depth since Steam Beta .. its not like i just started working on it today out of the blue ..... but nobody listened .... and here we are complaining about the exact things i stated would be issues .... and experiencing losses exactly where i predicted them ... its not because im some super genius.

    but if you watch any game that has gone down our road they all make the same mistakes over and over again. they always add useless complexity (our damage system) with no real gain in depth(our weapons are all just dps balls instead of real diverse weapons with spheres of influence.)

    look at elite dangerous ... same path complexity no depth ....
    league shorten up TTK and makes most champions build able in a very narrow build path and specific optimal talents or the champ is non viable ...
    tribes changes its diverse builds and wide weapon selection and fine tuned physics engine for a more "arcade feel"

    every example did the same thing it did to EC ... it wasted dev time for no effect on the gameplay in fact a negative effect on the gameplay. In any asymetric game you will never have true balance the trick is to keep the balance in flux and continue to maintain or preferably add to depth of choice and gameplay ... not just adding complexity with no real goal or purpose in mind.

    when they add something or design something new they don't really think "what is this things role" and "how will this affect other roles."
  3. Delgear Steam Early Access

    needing a spreadsheet with advanced calculations to determine the top dps weapon is not depth its only complexity ....

    the fact that if you tried to determine what the best dps weapon was and the situation mattered drastically and returned different results every time would be depth.
  4. Delgear Steam Early Access

    a good example of a game "like EC in some regards" that created true depth would be mech warrior online ...

    if you have a weapon, whether you out dps the opponent or they out dps you in any given situation has so many variables that are technically under the players control its ridiculous ... is there a best dps weapon ? probably .... but it doesn't always win because any weapon in MWO has a weak spot be it range, heat, tracking, damage, facetime, ect .... and there's a weapon that fits right into that groove and has an advantage in that situation to fight that weapon ....

    the balance isn't perfect but look how darn long that zombie game still lives because it has actual real depth of gameplay.
  5. Krayt Krayt Preacher

    Monologue
  6. Bigbitz Ironangel2k3 Steam Early Access

    Im a simple ork, I like my big guns and thats what I know about. Orks need to differentiate themselves by finding a niche. Right now, they don't really have one. My proposal is sweeping changes to Ork melee and shooting in general to put orks in the "close combat monsters" niche, which fits the lore and would make orks have a threat range while also giving them clear weaknesses. With these asymmetrical balance ordeals, you have to be willing to do some extreme things to set factions apart.

    -Close range damage on all Ork guns should be increased heavily.
    -Long range damage on all Ork guns should be lowered.
    -Accuracy on most Ork guns should be decreased slightly.

    These are the basic shooting changes to work around. The idea is that, if we use the bolter as our baseline, the bolter should win out at longer ranges. As the gap closes, that becomes less and less true, until that flips over and starts moving more in the Shoota's favor as distance decreases. The same can be said comparing heavy bolters and deffguns. As it stands, bolters and heavy bolters win at range, and then in close in fighting, its pretty much whoever starts shooting first. If a Loota and a Devastator round the corner on each other, and both immediately open up at the same time, the match should go to the deffgun every time. On the other hand, if the loota rounds the corner and the devastator is further away, the match should go to the heavy bolter every time. This will limit the effective places a loota with a deffgun can deploy and still be effective, but the places where they ARE effective, they will be VERY effective.

    -Unmounted Dakka Deffgun spinup should be shortened.

    This one I feel needs to be addressed on its own because this is going to draw a lot of ire, but hear me out. There was a time when Ork ranged capabilities were sort of like what I've said here, but Orks were useless because a few heavy bolters could invalidate Ork advances and Orks couldn't really do a whole lot about it. Letting Dakka Deffguns spin up faster lets them get into those closer positions without instantly dying and lets them support pushes. With Ork long ranged shooting hobbled, actually uprooting enemy devastators/havocs/DRs will require assault infantry, meaning a way to suppress on the move will prevent a single heavy weapon from rendering an Ork squad impotent without actually providing a way to kill the Devastator from long range.

    -Ork melee weapons should inflict additional break damage.
    -Ork melee strikes should travel further.
    -Ork melee strikes should initiate faster, but have longer recoveries.

    The last two on this list are mostly QOL upgrades so that they can compete with faster melee of SM and Eldar while still feeling big and chunky. The first is to enable Ork melee superiority against other assault classes. Orks should be very strong in melee, beating out everyone except maybe Khornate melee in a straight duel. Maybe not every single time guaranteed, but they should have an advantage to solidify their "close range specialist" niche. Allowing Orks to break enemy weapons faster in clashes is a good way to go about this without directly increasing damage, which I don't think is really necessary as that would only make them better at the things they already do well enough (Chopping up devastators). As for the first two suggestions, currently Ork melee classes are very simple to get away from by just running, because their strikes come out very slowly and don't go very far.

    Orks should be a very in-your-face enemy, where if you can keep them at arm's length, they don't pose a big threat, but once they get on top of you things get rough.

    DLB iz makin some changez to da spreddsheet. 'Ere it iz:

    https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/16A06Y3mcCUyofifG8I6GskLDkLZribCa6h7xhZBh8Ws/edit?usp=sharing
  7. Krayt Krayt Preacher

    have you already used a big shoota ?
  8. Bigbitz Ironangel2k3 Steam Early Access

    I will admit I use the rodeo. I've never used the big shoota. I play Loota mostly. I know they suppress but the suppression is very weak, and isn't really enough to enable the moving of boyz with as accurate as HBs are.
  9. Krayt Krayt Preacher

    they actually have the same supression
  10. Bigbitz Ironangel2k3 Steam Early Access

    Really? Huh. I did not know that. I'll amend that then.

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