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In Development: Scream While Dying (TM) - Updated

Discussion in 'General Discussion' started by Oveur, Nov 30, 2017.


But Angron can be nice?

  1. No.

  2. Seriously. No.

  3. No. You are totally getting banned for not following the rules.

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  1. Delgear Steam Early Access

    In other words the difficulty of the game to a newbie and the difficulty of the game to a pro. can be directly linked, but they don't have to be.

    You may believe that there is always counter play that can be achieved. You are right there probably is ... however that is completely irrelevant. If the opportunity for counter play is not obvious apparent and perceivable to a new player ... there might as well not be any ... and they will leave.

    Ergo the more elitist your comments the more you kill the game. The more elitist the solution the less chance you have of even having a place to be elitist about.
  2. Delgear Steam Early Access

    you can also take potshots at Njord as well and his talks about LP pricing and imbalance but he is striking on a very real problem and one that is built all the wayinto the nitty gritty of the base of this game ::

    Choices have to have costs, they have to have an opportunity cost of something you are giving up. When he highlights the bolter and the plasma rifle, its just the most visible occurrence of this problem. But there are countless examples throughout the game of two choices and one of them has absolutely no opportunity cost ... so therefore it isn't really a choice.

    Meaningful choice is a really big deal, these "normies" everyone keeps dissing, like to play around and enjoy lots of weapons they don't try to dedicate to complete master of the best weapon they just like to play with whatever strikes them that day. They kinda can't though .... can they ?

    I mean yeah no matter how well you balance there will always be a best piece of equipment for a slot "competitively" but in a really good game even the "sub optimal" choice can leverage a specific strategy, advantage, or style of engagement to its advantage.

    If you look at the plasma rifle and the bolter IN CONCEPT and not in stats, they are both direct fire primarily hitscan weapons, however the charged shot ... what separates the plasma gun, and the autofire//burstfire which separates the bolter, do not provide new avenues of play .... the charged shot is not reasonably executable in a regular firefight between the 2 im sure there are players out there pro enough to make it happen, but realistically its only useful in ambush situations for most players or a "lucky shot", if you charge the plasma rifle under direct fire you will die before it can fire.

    The game mechanics here are broken ... the bolter has barely lower damage for 100 less LP, and that damage is more consistent and easier to land, and you lose less dps vs a roll with the bolter. in fact you can mod the bolter with less lp than 100 to be a higher dps weapon with all of its advantages. This is a place for an opportunity cost .... When you select the bolter ESPECIALLY since its cheaper there should be an opportunity cost.

    Some design options could include ::

    --the plasma gun automatically charges to a charged shot when not fired, and doesn't overcharge and shoot or blow up .... meaning as you travel somewhere you automatically charge a fight opening burst shot to put you ahead in the dps race.

    -- The armor in the game and the pen available on the plasma gun could both be tweaked to be more meaningful so that the plasma gun does actually have more damage against a better armored target.

    --Give the plasma guns baseline dps a buff to be slightly higher or even with where the bolter is, and retool the charged shot for vs vehicles.

    --Change the mechanics of the "charged burst" so it is the preferred DPS option instead, and make it a risk/reward dps increase. so that the plasma rifle is lower dps on snapshot but IF you have the skill to chain land charged shots and charged shots happen inside the ttl window, you can actually exceed the bolters damage that way. making the two weapons "Play" differently.

    In essence it really doesn't matter but a lot of our weapons are just "DPS balls" and thats why the best dps ball always gets chosen. from a design angle we should be thinking a LOT more about each weapon and what makes it special and accentuate that quality as best we can.
  3. Lady Rheeva Steam Early Access

    No, see: Counterplay is evil.
    There can only be one, viable weapon and if you want to beat the people using it, you have to do exactly what they do, only better.
    Ya'know? If there were functional countering mechanics, you could potentially get beaten by someone who is less skilled than you and that's completely intolerable...
  4. Delgear Steam Early Access

    Its not often one can see sarcasm in the air as if the waft from a hot grill .....
  5. Delgear Steam Early Access

    if you really look at the old spreads i made i made a very distinct and measured attempt into grouping weapons into play styles ::
    2 handed assault rifles like the bolter were designed to favor short bursts and controlled stick and move mechanics.
    2 handed plasma or the "Disk launcher" tier for those that played tribes :: are designed to be riskier than the bolter but with higher reward and to favor thier risk mechanic mathematically in DPS reward.
    pistol variants :: are better in close range than their 2 handed variant but worse in longer range.
    Ailment weapons were specifically themed around thier ailment strategy.
    rapid fire heavy weapons are supposed to be stationary sweeping weapons.

    Melee weapons were sorted into weapons with themes ::
    cheap well rounded(swords)
    DPS (axe)
    defensive (mace/maul)

    The idea was that not only was i changing numbers but i was changing number sin such a way to completely change the game play strategies and purposes for weapons in game. making sure in almost any matchup each gun would have a leverage asset to try to win the conflict as long as they could keep the battle "on their terms".

    Because numbers arent just about balance they can also implement gameplay change, and design scope.
  6. Durash Durash Arkhona Vanguard

    That actually slipped my mind, tribes was gr8 but isn't ascend pretty dead nowadays?
  7. Slough Monster Slough_Monster Arkhona Vanguard

    I think so. Ascend is the most casual of the tribes games. There is Midair now, which has been added to steam, but you need a group to play with. Basically only skirmishes. And there is a pretty active group in Tribes Vengeance, but similar manner. Basically you only play if you want to play somewhat competitively.
    ProteusVM and Durash like this.
  8. Smorcest Elector Eternal Battles Moderator

    Just because you can market a game to a shitton of people doesn't make it less of a shit game, if you want games like Star Wars Battlefront and League then you are free to go play them.
    ProteusVM, Aislinn, Durash and 2 others like this.
  9. Grotduffa Timburwolfe Active Member

    Not with anything resembling reliability, given the way latency and netcode work.

    And since someone decided to bring up Quake, here's my two cents on what made it fun:

    Simplicity of weapons, complexity of tactics; you have something like 10 different weapons with varied purposes and statistics. Each and every one was suited to a more or less specific situation or style of combat, and no weapon was the best choice over all others except in those scenarios. Even in those scenarios, however, your weapon of choice was never so powerful that it was better than any other weapon in the game. Map knowledge and skillful movement was what put the top players at the top, not their choice of weapons and equipment.

    In EC on the other hand, you can tell who the best players are by which of the four factions they primarily play as. Ranked from lowest to highest in terms of how difficult they are to play effectively, you have LSM, CSM, Eldar, and Orks.

    You can also, for the most part, tell who the most fun players are by which they play. From least fun to most fun, you have LSM, Eldar, CSM, and Orks. If you've ever played when it's just a bunch of pubbie orks with voice chat, the reason is obvious. Or during the 4th of July.
  10. Even with that.

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