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In Development: Scream While Dying (TM) - Updated

Discussion in 'General Discussion' started by Oveur, Nov 30, 2017.

?

But Angron can be nice?

  1. No.

  2. Seriously. No.

  3. No. You are totally getting banned for not following the rules.

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  1. Krayt Krayt Preacher

    I dont want to be a bully or being mean but ... you know nothing about orks ... seriously , and dont suggest me to practice aim ..

    [​IMG]

    To be sure about what i am stating i ve done testings with @jbregg 10 min ago , Orks's Head hitbox begins from the top of the nose/eyes , so no your head hitboxes are awfully small on top of being untouchable from behind since the torso hitbox is so fucked that you cant hit it from behind
    [​IMG]
    I am here talking about hitbox , not the model itself , hitboxes are bigger than the models and some hitboxes are fucked up ( ork torso being so big you cover 80% of the head , Space marines that dont have hitboxes ont the shoulders ect ....)

    so we have here an eldar with 225 base ehp against ork's 325 ehp
    and you have 43% headshot reduction so basically :

    Eldar head ehp : 225
    ork's head ehp : 477.75

    and that's for a head hitbox that is 2 to 3 times smaller than the eldar one
    so yeah your torso is big but that's it , you head hit box is not in the middle of the chest but on top of the head

    [​IMG]

    i know it will piss you off but you need to accept it :

    -Orks are unbalanced
    -Orks are the best faction without a single doubt
    -Orks are easy to play

    i am not saying this to be mean / enfuriate you / troll / ect i just want the community to know the truth and not listen blindly to what people say

    (and i am just talking about hitboxes imbalances not even digging into ork's weaponry so will leave your comment about the bolter on the side)
  2. Mkoll Oan-Mkoll Steam Early Access

    what @Krayt said is completely right and I can confirm the same results. btw saying bolter do so much burst while orks have the big shoota or shoota that does even more burst damage is super retarded, especially while having ehp advantage + headshot damage reduction

    @Thrakka stop searching for excuses that it is unbalanced, those are all proven facts and you always come up with the argument and say it does not feel like balanced, ofc it does not feel balanced for you, you would loss against a world class chess player 100% of the time even if u get white advantage everytime
    Atsidas and ProteusVM like this.
  3. Demetri Dominov Demetri_Dominov Arkhona Vanguard

    Well I feel like were going to be at a standstill for awhile now @Krayt because balance, especially asymetrical balance is holistic and though pieces of your argument may be correct, it's missing some key factors that really make it pretty misleading as Orks are not really all that great and more of an annoyance to play against than truly over powered.

    For example they have some of the widest Hitboxes in the game and cannot utilize cover almost at all. Nor do they have other forms of overall damage mitigation such as the survival vial, protect, ranged healing, ect. Nor do they have DPS enhancements like EVERY other faction. Their armor isn't as good, in some cases it's almost as bad as Eldar's, nor does it regenerate meaning their susceptible to guerilla warfare and firefighting at mid-range. Their healinh is the most restrictive and limited in the game. Their riot shields have half the hp of the storm shield, their vehicles are pretty awful to drive for most players, their JPAs are arguably the worst in the game, they have an entire page worth of weapons, items, and upgrades that dont even matter. They could literally disappear overnight with 10,000 Orks playing and not one of them would have noticed if an item like the six shoota went away. The list goes on and on because Orks have had the least amount of dev time and consideration for balance. Almost everything that actually works in their favor is a crutch for a failure someplace else. What needs to happen is a smoothing out for this faction. What it shows is that middle of the ground non-headshotting centric gameplay is completely possible if you actually balance for it. The problem is that Orks also have a lot of one trick ponies that amount to 1 hit KOs because there's not much else they can do.
  4. Demetri Dominov Demetri_Dominov Arkhona Vanguard

    Furthermore, by your own submission, melee is not in a good place, yet Orks are meant to be the melee centric faction. Explain how to balance that, with bigger Hitboxes no less.

    Also, what's with all the insults flying? If by evidence suggests, you three seem to care very little about the community of the game if you're continuing your tirade against @Thrakka whom.you seemed to have attachment issues with. It seems none of you really care about balance at all and would rather invalidate your own points with petty cheap shots to force not one, but arguably two faction leaders to stop playing the game entirely. Your behavior seems like you're actively trying to kill the game so you can sail with a semblence of pride before things you rely on get nerfed, exploits get fixed and you're incapable of adapting. Nohing you've said at all supports keeping this game alive. It's the exact opposite, its extremely political, and you just keep beating a dead horse insulting virtually everyone who isn't as elite as you... Because... Of what?
  5. Lady Rheeva Steam Early Access

    This is extremely valuable information that needs to be more widespread. I definitely noticed Orks melt faster if I aim higher than I intuitively would, but I did not have an explanation for it until now.
    What Orks need are primarely fixes for their animations and their camera. I honestly can't play that faction because it feels so clunky and clumsy.

    After that, weapon balance, Painboy-buffs and EHP-nerfs are on the list but its not an immediate concern.
    It is the most powerful faction but they are not dreadfully OP. The build-diversity is not awful, there are probably more variations of Ork-builds being played than of Loyalist-builds.
  6. Demetri Dominov Demetri_Dominov Arkhona Vanguard

    Well said. Very powerful, not OP.

    As far as variances I'm not sure. For example the Shoota has 3 guns. LSM have 6. They only use 2, maybe 3 with any regularity.
    LSM have 6 or 7 pistols. 4 see usage.
    Orks have something like (I don't have the list up so pardon), 13 or 14 pistols? They only use 3 or 4 of them.
    Orks and LSM have roughly the same amount of options for melee and they're both well utilized. Though I'd say the Axe is favored on Orks and the Mace is favored on LSM. That and the lesser amount of shield bro's on Orks.
    Orks have two more options for Devestators and it's a coin toss if they'll use it or it not. Depends on if they're feeling Chaosy autocannons or Plasma like Kannons. I very rarely see the plasma gun even though it's really good.
  7. Krayt Krayt Preacher

    sure they have big hitbox , but they have more ehp + high toughness
    the fact that they dont have damage mitigation via support is not a drawback since they are tough as fuck and can spam shoota boys because they dont need anything else
    the dont have dps enhancement because they have they highest DPS in game
    their armor is not good but their hp is , and high toughness wich means they have a better time healing themselves with health pack
    vehicle is awfull to drive i agree
    ork's unique shield is 30lp less than lsm shield for same durability
    their JPA's are the best ingame because they are :
    -the tankiest
    -best sidearms in the game
    -fire sword
    who cares about variances when u have the best weapon in each category ?
    Oan-Mkoll and ProteusVM like this.
  8. Demetri Dominov Demetri_Dominov Arkhona Vanguard

    That's almost every argument people have against LSM and the Bolter. Word for word.

    Also as an aside, the Orks do not have the highest DPS unless we're talking about a few select weapons hitting their target and instantly killing them. A lot of people don't like it. I'm on the fence because I dontd want more Skipp Rokkits. Nor are their high DPS options particularly reliable. With the exception of the Rodo shooter which is definitely crutch weapon that exploits the fuck out of the headshot mechanic and the Ace Dakka which I addressed in my massive post. Unles we're talking some sort of adjusted eHP value or raw? Because that seemed like a far reach for you.

    The argument remains unchanged. And perhaps we agree! As long as those options are ALWAYS the answer, nobody is going to touch the other versions. Keeping Orks T is definitely not an opinion. It's what Orks are based on the lore. The trade for their toughness and innate resistence should be the lack of headshots on their weapons. You can't headshot them, they can't headshot you. Both sides will need to discover a new talent. Fighting is going to resemble the early days of Halo and I feel like thatst a great direction since it makes fighting Orks a real treat rather than exactly the same as everyone else: aim for the head better than the other guy. It makes sense and their skill can come out in many.. many.. Soo very many ways if only we had variance away from the all consuming idea that headshotting needs to be the dominant thing in this game. There's a time and place, and the Orks give 0 fucks.
    Schwifty likes this.
  9. Mkoll Oan-Mkoll Steam Early Access

    Ork DPS of mainweapons is always on the highend only beaten by minimal higher dps of selective eldar weapons. While eldar have like half of the ehp of an ork. You say this shit without even checking its ridiculous.

    btw: for good players all that matters are "how fast can I kill the enemy" and "how fast can they kill me" thats 75% of the game. Sorry to burst your bubble but other gimmicks as how good vehicles drive or how a faction should be played aka "Orks is a melee faction, REEEEEE" are unimportant.
    ProteusVM and Krayt like this.
  10. Krayt Krayt Preacher

    (take time to consider that ork weapons are on a guy 2* the ehp of an eldar and with HS damage reduction)
    (and that BigShoota has suppression)

    Shoota is the best of primary rifles , Big Shoota is the best riffle overall with suppression on top, idk why you are talking about rokkits or shit like that , only anti infantry tactical weapons matter , the fact that you talk about RodeoShoota and not big shoota blows my mind

    TLSC : 294
    Big Shoota : 290 <- has suppression
    Rodeo Shoota : 280

    SB : 264
    ASC :250
    Shoota 224/248 with CQC
    Plasma Gun : 211
    Bolter : 210/230 with CQC
    Stalker: 208
    Hunter's Mark/Hawk's talon: 193
    Lasblaster:192
    Sunrifle: 176
    ProteusVM likes this.

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