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In Development: Scream While Dying (TM) - Updated

Discussion in 'General Discussion' started by Oveur, Nov 30, 2017.


But Angron can be nice?

  1. No.

  2. Seriously. No.

  3. No. You are totally getting banned for not following the rules.

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  1. Actually it's a solid and proven successful concept if properly implemented. As far as explaining, BHVR would clearly explain to newbies in game the purpose of the buffs and why/how and how long the newbie buff works .

    Warhammer Online has/had the same type of buff or system for low level players entering a new PVP bracket or zone. So if you just hit lvl 20 and enter the lvl 20-29 zone or que up and enter a lvl 20-29 PVP match you're HP and toughness get significantly buffed(up to lvl 29 I think, it's been a while). With this type of system newbies entering the fray aren't instantly getting dropped by higher level players and it really makes things better for lower level players.

    That mechanic worked out really well in Warhammer Online because as you level up your HP buff gets lower and lower with each level but you also unlock new abilities and new wargear as you level up. Plus you just get better at the game and you're leveling up and getting stronger as a character and player as your HP and Toughness buffs get lower and lower then dwindle down to nothing.

    In EC a modified version of that same type of mechanic could indeed work. It works because as we level up from being a brand new player to having a week or two in game we get better with the core game mechanics and we also unlock new armor, new weapons and new wargear.

    So while the "newbie" toughness and HP buff might eventually dwindle down to nothing, that same newbie by then should be wearing better armor, should be better at just playing the game, and they should have access to better wargear and better weapons and new weapon mods.

    All in all it's a great system and a solid suggestion, though there'd need to be stop gap measures implemented to keep some from exploiting the system. Measures that could be easily implemented.

    Good point, though game developers are smart enough to avoid such easily exploitable types of mechanics. BHVR could, for example, only allow this "newbie" buff to be applied during your first 20 hours of game time in the game. Once you spend > 20 hours in game the newbie buff goes away forever no matter how many new characters you start. Or BHVR could choose between 3 dozen other possible viable measures to ensure that only brand new players receive this buff for a set period of time.

    I suppose someone could still create as many new Steam accounts(that's accounts, not characters) as they want and start a brand new character. Sure they'd enjoy that first 20 hours of game play in EC with the newbie HP and Toughness buff. Though that's at the cost of creating an additional Steam Account(s) and perhaps buying the entire game again, and again, and again. I'm sure the devs wouldn't mind that at all.
    Zael likes this.
  2. Velenor Subordinate

    bolter is the baseline weapon, nerf bolter.
    remove clang
    Njord-Halfhand likes this.
  3. While we want one of the most iconic weapons of the 40K universe to remain iconic and relevant in EC at all levels of game play, there are a myriad of blatant LP pricing imbalances that make the Bolter hands down the most OP platform in game based off of cost.

    These prices assume we're all trained up and max level.

    1. Bolter 200 LP base price vs Plasmagun 300 LP base price

    Clearly the Bolter is the superior choice. In head to head encounters the Bolter beats the Plasmagun in 8/10 situations and is all around a superior weapon. As a bonus the Bolter is 100 LP cheaper so you have a metric f..k ton of extra LP to spend on whatever.

    Bolter(200 LP) + Drum Mag(30 LP) + CQB Barrel(50 LP) = 280 LP > 300 LP Plasmagun

    The cheaper Bolter plus two extremely powerful mods still cost less than the POS Plasmagun. The drum mag is hands down one of the most powerful mods in the entire game and it's one of the cheapest. 30 LP to double your ammo per mag?

    The LP price tag of the drum mag should be up around 50 LP at least. Especially if we consider the totally outrageous price of some of the the lackluster mods such as the 100 LP life leech mod for all melee weapons. The price of the Plasmagun should be less than the standard bolter since the standard bolter is obviously a superior weapon.

    This is a massive imbalance of epic proportions as far as LP pricing leading to insurmountable advantages for the Tactical class + Bolter vs all.

    2. Master Crafted Bolter costs 230 LP, that's 30 LP more than the standard version. All other Master Crafted weapons cost 40, 50, 70 or 100 more LP than the standard version. So the most powerful weapon platform in game also has the cheapest Master Crafted model as well as the most powerful and cheapest mods! These are facts ladies and gents, not speculation or here say. Check the numbers.

    Imbalances piled upon imbalances piled upon imbalances are astronomically compounding the insurmountable advantages Tacticals wielding Bolters have vs all other Tactical builds and vs all other classes.

    Just FYI.

    .04 less recoil on the MC Plasma Pistol costs 50 LP
    less recoil on the MC Hvy Bolter costs 70 LP
    less recoil on the MC Plas Cannon costs 70 LP
    less recoil on the MC Bolter costs 30 LP

    This lone example is one among about two dozen pricing imbalances that work in favor of Bolter Wielding Tacs. These price imbalances are long overdue for a fix guys.
  4. What I'm hearing is nerf Tacticals... sounds good to me ^_^b
  5. Not nerf, just give us consistent LP prices across the board. Consistency in LP pricing is sorely needed.

    Rather than nerf anything I'd rather see BHVR bring down the price all MC weapons for all classes down to +30 LP more than the standard version since we all know the Bolter is the most powerful all around weapon in the entire game and the MC Bolter only costs +30 LP. In addition BHVR just needs to fix the obviously broken LP prices for some items.

    .04 less recoil on the MC Plasma Pistol costs 50 LP(not a typo! that's point zero FOUR less recoil!!)
    less recoil on the MC Hvy Bolter costs 70 LP
    less recoil on the MC Plas Cannon costs 70 LP(a useless stat for the weapon mind you)
    .05 less recoil on the MC Bolter costs 30 LP

    Magnificent Combi Bolter vs Bolter-Stabilizing Grip. "Less recoil while shooting on the move" is the stat bonus for both systems.

    For the same exact stat change we pay
    +100 LP for the Magnificent combi bolter and +20 LP for the Stabilizing grip for our Bolter. Beyond broken.

    These are the most obvious and most egregious examples. These examples are tip of the iceburg if you do a deep dive into LP prices across the board.

    Let's consider the Sorc pays 120 LP for a bit more mana AND they have to take up a Wargear slot just to be able to shoot spells longer. We can shoot our bolter twice as long with double the ammo in our mag for only 30 LP. That's beyond insane.

    Consider also that Tactical top tier Iron Halo costs 590 LP. All other classes pay 620 to 680 LP for the same tier Iron Halo. Again, where's the consistency? All top tier Iron Halos should costs 590 LP.

    This isn't opinion or here say, these are cold, hard numbers.

    I'm not saying nerf Tacs. A lot of broken LP prices work against non bolter wielding Tacs. For example the the broken prices for the Magnificent Combi Bolter and the outrageous prices for the POS Plasmagun and the POS MC Plasmagun.

    What I am saying is that we need consistency as far as LP prices in order to create a fair playing field for everyone that's not playing a Tac and wielding a Bolter.
    Grammaticus_John likes this.
  6. Krayt Krayt Preacher

    we all know but thanks for telling us again for the 200th time

  7. Apparently not everyone knows because some of those broken LP prices have been broken for almost a year now(since the initial LP pricing overhaul). Other LP price imbalances have been that way since the game went live.

    The needed fixes do not require MOCAP, artwork, animators, or level design expertise. These fixes require someone to open a file and fix the obvious price imbalances and stats by simply changing numbers. I'm a deaf and dumb ex ground pounder and I do this kind of stuff with my Total War mods and TW units.
    Grammaticus_John and Ondora like this.
  8. Ondora Ondora Subordinate

    Superior? Really? I thought the penetration would balance it.

  9. A vast majority of encounters I have vs Plasma when I have Bolter I win. A vast majority of encounters when I have Plasmagun vs Bolter the Bolter wins. Can anyone truthfully claim anything otherwise?

    Even with superior penetration a 300 LP Plasmagun cannot compete with a dodging/rolling opponent wielding a cheaper Bolter + Drum mag at 230 LP.

    With a 300 LP Plasmagun in your hand that overheats and needs to "reload" every what, every 12 shots or so vs your bolter firing opponent can keep firing and firing and firing with a 230 LP weapon. Your opponent has a cheaper Bolter even with a drum mag, and they can put that 70 extra LP into armor, health or Wargear or a CQB barrel, they can fire much, much longer than you can and your opponent is still be under 300 LP for their primary weapon.

    It's such an easy strat vs Plasmagun. Just roll/abuse I frames and duck in/out of cover while spamming Bolter until their PG overheats then finish them off. With your dirt cheap drum mag and 200 LP bolter you can just keep firing forever and beat them when they have to reload/vent heat.

    The PG as a concept in EC is broken. The only time the PG was worth 300 LP is when it hit harder per shot, but then it beat the Bolter in every imaginable situation because of full auto firing mode for the Plasmagun. Everyone was using the PG and nobody was using the Bolter, or those that were lost to the PG almost every time.

    There was an easy fix and a clear reason why the PG was outperforming the Bolter, full auto. Instead of removing full auto firing mode from the PG and simply making the PG fire only in semi auto and keeping the higher damage per shot, BHVR nerfed the PG damage and since then this weapon has been a waste of space and a waste of RAM.
  10. Lady Rheeva Steam Early Access

    This thread needs all, current responses deleted and a new rule set up that you can't talk about balance, only post iterations of the spreadsheet.

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