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In Development: Scream While Dying (TM) - Updated

Discussion in 'General Discussion' started by Oveur, Nov 30, 2017.

?

But Angron can be nice?

  1. No.

  2. Seriously. No.

  3. No. You are totally getting banned for not following the rules.

Results are only viewable after voting.
  1. Imophel xAFTRBURNERx Arkhona Vanguard

    I highly doubt my suggestion for fixing fortresses is inferior because it's currently the meta to knock down the gates and bring the lives back to the last point to then cheese it. If you destroy lives on the gate, the lives you get back should be cut in half, period no if ands or buts.
    Arafael likes this.
  2. Krayt Krayt Preacher

    you miss understood , i want orks to take 200% damage on hs like all others , not 100% i want to get rid of hs resistance , not hs bonus damage
    For the eldar case , it still takes 3 lascanon shots to kill an eldar transport , 2 devs can instant kill an eldar transport on sight from the other end of the map , eldar have the best close range AV true but they pay that by not having a good long range one, if you drive your transport you have no need to fear Fire dragons

    And for the last point it would make the game less dynamic for me if i have to wait 30 sec until the next wave of ennemies come instead of 15 sec
    Ondora and Arafael like this.
  3. Imophel xAFTRBURNERx Arkhona Vanguard

    Oh. Yeah I did misunderstand you lol, my bad. I can see the point for that too, it's a REALLY complex issue to fix honestly.
    Arafael and Krayt like this.
  4. Ondora Ondora Subordinate

    I don't mean inferior to the current system (certainly not) but to "doubling the gate health and removing the ticket transfer completly"

    I really believe that the "shield-system" would get rid of all the problems considering grav tanks.
    The only problem left would be the inferior fire power of falcons or the accuracy loss on the move, which shouldn't at all be the case for grav-tanks.

    I agree that increasing respawn time would even completly rid defenders for any counterassault on unattended Points, that would certainly feel unpleasant.
  5. Delgear Steam Early Access

    I think we only need to nerf specifically "redeploy"
    i think the present death time is sufficient .... of if it needs a nerf only a slight nerf ... the problem comes when players "exploit the fact" that redeploy kills you instantly for free and use it as a free rhino to another point that needs defending ... ruining the attacking teams flanking maneuver.

    i think if redeploy has a cumulative penalty for using it, whereby the first time or 2 you redeploy its a regular death, to help sort out communication mistakes in the early game .... like "oops no one brought AV" or we have 0 "melees to defend our devastators", or "no one is a tac variant" can be quickly resolved ... but i think entire teams just camping a spotter at a point and spam redeploying is a rather bad and boring metagame ... sure everyone gets to go into the mosh pit ... but thats all we have are mosh pits ..... positioning and savvy flanking are greatly diminished by this mechanic.

    The current state of redeploy is why we have so much glomping especially in random queue, all attackers are basically in mostly all in groups of over half the team, and all defenders are just one guy using voice to tell their friends the enemy is there and stalling as long as they can ....

    Strategically speaking because of redeploy you have to deploy a large attack force or a ghost cap .... because you are either feinting where your attack really is, or you are throwing enough people at it to hold for the swarm of redeploy respawns about to fall on you .....

    The defenders are also in kind forced to defend 1-2 points very hard and leave any others with only a single scout, because if they spread out even they would still get overwhelmed by the game mechanics influenced all in, and most are just going to redeploy into position within 20 seconds anyway ...

    This also contributes to pug frustration, they cannot build a strong platform to launch from ... if they are playing a guild, and they swarm a point and successfully create a cap attempt they generally get battered down by the respawning army of team work and vet players piling onto them .... even if they manage to get the TE the point is generally shortly flipped back and they are stuck in the same situation ....

    if how many could go at one place was more of a chess match .... pugs would probably have more upset potential, and guilds couldn't stranglehold as easily as even if their scout tells them they cant just "poof" their way over there they have to slog it giving them less time to stop the convert, and more of a chance for pugs to gather some points.

    I think generally speaking pugs would feel better about a loss if they had like 75% of the points to win and held points for a time, instead of the present situation where they can convert likely all 3 at least once but never really collect any points, between redeploy swarms and ghost capping against scouts.
  6. Delgear Steam Early Access

    In regards for the melee weapons ... to make a melee weapon as deadly as a ranged wepaon in the current meta it would have to one shot on a quick attack, and kill between 2.2 and 4 people on a fierce attack(depending on weapon speed) and thats assuming no dbashes or clangs..... i hate dying that fast to ranged .... i dont want to see melee that way either .... i dont want to discuss how broken shield classes would be under those conditions.

    a quick attack takes 1 second to complete even on eldar and does its damage on the very last frames .... so even if it insta killed it would still be slower than a bolter to the head.

    Ballistic knife from CoD is a cancer im ok with letting die.
  7. Orkan Orkan Arkhona Vanguard

    I have always thought for a long time that Tanks need to feel tanky and should have their HP increased by 2 or three times their current health. This should mean that AV is a TEAM activity that needs to be carried out by 3-4 people in order to be effective and quick. You'd have to choose who will be your CC (AV disablement pin down team - hawks, Powerfists, Grav Cannons) and who will be your AV DPS and you'd have to make more deliberate decisions about short vs Long ranged AV. AS the task will take longer this team will also need to be escorted by a few anti Infantry troops to make sure they can carry out their mission as well as contain any new players spawning.

    The shield Idea from Ondona is brilliant for the waveserpent/falcon to counter lawnmowering but may be hard/impossible to physically implement as it means changing numerous game mechanics not least of all extra GUI additions.

    I feel teleport redeploy ruins the game. Players popping into existence on the predetermined spawn areas, which all vets now know about and can camp hard to force a different and further spawn redeploy to be used is such a terrible and poorly implemented redeploy system.

    It is immersion breaking and results in poor and predictable gameplay.

    This sort of 'teleport redeploy' mechanic should only exist with the existence of a finite 'appear across the map' redeploy system like Drop Pods or Webways. We have no drop pods and will have no drop pods so I think redeploy should simply allow you to only spawn on your home spawn ONLY. This will force defenders to use vehicles intelligently to form their own reinforcement points for reinforcement when defending their points and will also mean that we will see much more use of the maps as players traverse the landscape more and form actual flowing front lines. It is correct that popping into existence redeploy/respawn mechanic completely kills the value of an attacking team's flanking maneuver. I would LOVE to see redeploy on points BINNED completely and more vehicles available for all sides (with longer cooldowns if they were to have 3x as much HP)

    It could mean that respawn timer could even be lowered to allow the defenders(all players?) to redeploy more quickly to factor in the increased travel time from base. Yeah you'd be running more but isn't it better to have that 'agency' rather than just staring at the death screen and watching those seconds tick down?

    However there is a problem with even this as certain maps EG Zedek or fortresses have no way of allowing defenders access to spawn vehicles past point B and so even this is problematic. A simple structure where players spawn from could solve this but again that would require graphical assets to be implemented which is beyond the scope of our remaining DEV and defies the point of this number tweaking exercise.
    Ondora likes this.
  8. This thread really needs to be cleaned up. Wasn't it supposed to be about number crunching in first place?! Now it's 38 pages largely consisting of balance and gameplay discussion instead of numbers.

    Anyway, if someone is still interested in working with the numbers, what do you guys think about rising ammo count and/or RoF for Ork mastercrafted weapons instead of increasing accuracy?
  9. Krayt Krayt Preacher

    OP AF

  10. No defender lives should be tied to the gates. The ability for defenders to spawn at a certain location should not be tied to gate status. This game mechanic makes no sense what so ever.

    Instead, defender lives and defender's ability to spawn on the walls should be attached to............. actual objectives/spawn points located atop the outer walls. Three objectives/spawn points to be precise, should be located atop the outer walls of each fortress with X number of tickets associated with each. Far left, Center, and far right spawn points.

    Attackers should have to actually set foot atop the walls and capture those objectives in order to deny defenders the ability to spawn atop the walls. Once those defender held objectives are lost, so are all the tickets associated with each objective. If attackers choose to bypass those locations and go straight for the first main objective, defenders should still be able to use any ticket that's associated with any objective/spawn point located atop the walls until all tickets are used up or until attackers secure the objective.
    Delgear likes this.

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