I think you don't understand what I am saying. I do not say PS2 is: As close to EC as can be. I say it is a starting point. I will further clarify that by saying: It is a starting point for discussions on massive, on FF, and perhaps on a few other topics that may be common in both PS2 and EC. Whether I like the game or not, is of no relevance to anything you and I have spoken of.

It is a massive shooter. It has FF, and the system they use actually works. That is all I am saying. Further more, the Dev's put out a list of games they took inspiration from, and PS2 was on that list with a few other titles. I did not take that to mean that the devs wanted to make PS3 with a WH40K skin. I took it as they were seeing what works in that game, what draws people to play it, and finding a way to make a similar and better system for the game they were developing.

Not looking at what other games are doing is in my opinion a terrible mistake. One can take many lesson from seeing a successful game and many more lessons from seeing a failed game. Ever heard the quote; those that do not know history are doomed to repeat it?

Anyway, I have babbled on enough, I hope you can see my point of view now.

Could not agree more with this. Learning from our mistakes and/or others mistakes is human nature and it is necessary to be able to try and create something that is fresh and original.

The thunder here is all whiskey's he said it plain and simple.


Personally i'm also done with this thread and I will wait until there is a beta to discuss further. A lot of great insight and good conversation mates. see ya around!

I agree.

Possibly not the best example, but look at World of Warcraft . The reason it became such a phenomenon is that it saw what worked before it and then took that and made it better (usually, that's a discussion for another time .) It continues to do this as they watch what new things others are trying and coming out with their own version of it. There are many other games that could be used in this example, just used the quickest that came to mind.

Does this mean this is the only way? Of course not and that's why we have so many games that are basically WoW with different paint jobs. You have to find what you believe might work or something you like from different games...it can sometimes spark a new thought or idea that will improve your own game by adding it to it or coming up with something new and exciting.

Just as it's folly to ignore what other people are doing, it's also a huge pitfall to rely too much on it. There's a serious danger in getting too familiar with what others are doing as it can make you lose focus on what will make your game what it's supposed to be versus what it ends up.

Also, just because a project or game failed doesn't mean the entire product is all bad ideas...just that the sum of it's parts wasn't handled right. There are many facets of doomed or mediocre games that are great and just not utilized right, so it's important to look at everything to see it's merit.

Ok, I haven't played PS2 so i don't feel entitled to make a deep analysis of it but I'd be more than willing to hear about something from PS2 that could be useful in EC and the other way round: things that should be avoided at all cost.

I was actually about to suggest someone detail how they handle friendly fire in that game as I can't say I've ever played it either. It's always good to get some perspective on various games.

Well, I'm not so much interested in this particular aspect I guess as I've read enough about it. I'd rather hear about other things that might be translatable into EC or things that shouldn't be translatable. Like I said before as the main topic of the thread seems to be exploited we can move on to sth different.

http://wiki.planetside-universe.com/ps/Grief
http://wiki.planetsidesyndicate.com/index.php?title=Grief_points

I haven't seen any listing of the numbers involved for the ps2 system though they are likely simmilar to the numbers listed for planetside 1.

There's full FF, that's it; there's no distinction between friends and enemies, everyone can be hit and wounded just the same
the only exception is the lasher, a slow firing AoE machine gun, which deals half splash damage to allies, improving its usefullness quite a bit; still, the weapon is way too situational and not quite useful as it doesn't fit the modern military shooter gameplay PS 2 has
But back to FF in PS 2 - I've never, ever had problems with griefing. Mistakes happen obviously, there's even a saying - every legitimate killstreak ends with a teamkill - but for the most part FF is a good thing. What isn't a good thing is pretty ass hit and collission detection at times; way too often it happens that you drive a tank with infantry running by, and you somehow still manage to run them over, because they decided to run across the road but your client hasn't registered that yet. This is the biggest problem, but it's technical rather than conceptual

I think this is the key thing as well.

PS2 is a very natural starting point for comparison, because there are going to be a number of similarities in gameplay style and mechanics to 40k. Its also on the list of developer 'must plays' for EC. Of course, also on that list were Borderlands, Space Marine and Mount & Blade: Warband. Which gives quite a clear sense of which games the developers are using to directly influence their thinking.

Equally, various members of the development team have cited other games like Firefall, EVE and GW2...Nicolas has also mentioned WAR in several aspects around general UI and guild UI features that could be good to learn from.

To no-one's great surprise, many of the developers are game players and industry observers themselves, both MMOs and otherwise. And there are things they may spot elsewhere and think "Hey, that's something to think about for EC..." And that's them doing their jobs intelligently. We as fans will also have our own backgrounds, preferences, thoughts and ideas of "This game did (x) really well/badly".

Provided EC doesn't copy mechanics or features for the sake of it, or because (x) game did it and therefore it must be the right thing to do, we'll be fine.

I'd prefer the option to punish a friendly unit for friendly fire that results in your death. It would be up to your judgment as to weather or not the FF was accidental, or intentional.

Could be done with a pop up button on the death screen, with a forgive or punish option. I say we have the option to kill the friendly player who killed us. If thats to harsh then something along the lines of weapon locking, or increasing their spawn timer.

Edit: Actually I'd combine increased spawn timer with the kill option for punish. That way if someone is intentionally griefing, and kills multiple players at once, or in a row it will slow down their ability to hurt their team.