I've always thought the top gun was insane on the tanks. Eldar can one shot with it, LSM and CSM and i guess Orkz too can easily snipe with it and down several people. Though as you say, its kinda squishy and 10 heavy bolters on the other team will melt it.

Once they fix Heavy Bolters we can start talking how to balance tanks again. :3

I like the quadguns on Pegasus. They add strategy to the map. Either get out your heavy weapon or avoid middle. Avoiding middle still leaves you with a or c targets. You just can't easily reinforce them. There are pleased and minuses to both, but usually the turrets aren't even manned at the beginning so you may be able to go up the middle anyway and steal them.

The best part of all this: the turrets have so much more health than the vehicles. We honestly don't need either of them (tanks or turrets) on many of the maps. Vehicle-wise, everything feels too squishy, and there's no real cost associated with spawning vehicles. It leads to a lot of waste and misuse of transports/tanks.

Suggestion: use tokens/requisition/teef/whatever to spawn transports, tanks, and ordinance, and also use them to "power on" turrets for a limited time. I have a feeling a health boost is coming to vehicles soon regardless.

The hitscan part is pretty much irrelevant, the maps aren't big enough for the bullets/shells speed to be taken into account. Even the smallest cartridge of our time goes up to 500m/s when leaving the barrel. The average bullet of the average assault rifle goes up to twice that amount. That's 1km/s.

Now imagine cartridge from the future that is propulsed by an initial explosion and then ignite some fuel like a rocket (talking about bolts). The artillery ammunition from the quad gun would go even faster.

Also, the quad guns that face the defenders have been added as a balancing tool because those maps were completely and totally unwinnable without them. Now it's okayish in random games but when facing experienced players/clans they're pretty much useless as they get destroyed during the first minute of the game.

Harkus is very misunderstood. It's not a map made for random players with random loadouts who don't know the map very well. But I personally think it's a fun map to play with a guild, against another guild.

Tanks and Transports also need to be bigger, right now they feel like clown cars, 1 tiny Rhyno with 10 marines inside.

I literally completely disagree with everything.

First of all, projectiles drastically alter everything in the game including infantry combat. I actually play projectile based games like Red Orchestra. It is substantially different. You have to lead your shots. It also has projectile drop in addition to travel time. I don't see how this is going to advantage the tank over infantry unless you mean the high velocity heavy bolter rounds compared to a rocket. The tank is a bigger target.

Red Orchestra also had a similar problem with its multicrew tanks. People just didn't get IN the tanks. This is when you could have a hull machine gunner, a driver, and a main gunner, AND the tanks had projectile models with drop and travel time and you could fire HE shells that would explode like a grenade. Red Orchestra 2 actually added AI crew members to tanks to take the place of missing players since in RO1 each tanker would usually solo a tank and switch seats between driver and gunner. So they recognized in other words that multi crewed tanks was a failing game model because people would rather have their own tank and switch seats as necessary than play as a team.

So that's an example where all of your suggestions were pre-existing and after years the developers acknowledged the same problem. One thing I would suggest is that you make the spawn option spawn you INSIDE a tank in an alternate crew member position. This would encourage team play and multi player tank crews, since they would rather spawn in the tank than walk 40 miles to the cap zone.

Infantry nearly always have an advantage over tanks in urban environments, whereas tanks nearly always have a pronounced advantage in open fields.

As far as the damage model, heavy bolters should NOT do any damage to tanks. Sure, if they did maybe 50-75% of the damage they're currently doing to rhinos it would be fine. But the fact that you can man an entire wall with heavy bolters and drill down a tank in 10 seconds is positively ridiculous. The way vehicle armor works in tabletop is similar to how it works IRL - if you're beneath a certain strength threshold, it's not possible to penetrate the armor and all your shots bounce off.

A predator is AV13 in tabletop frontally whereas a rhino is AV11. This is one case where using tabletop logic makes sense. A S5 heavy bolter can glance a rhino on a 6 roll on a D6, meaning they have a roughly 1/3 chance per turn of causing a glance per heavy bolter, with each rhino having 3 hull points with one being stripped per glance. Meanwhile even with a roll of 6 on the armor penetration roll, add a 6 to a 5 and your 11 is still 2 short of doing anything against AV13. Meanwhile you CAN glance his rear armor.

I think this makes more sense and gives tanks a dedicated purpose of stripping heavy bolters off fortification walls so the transports can advance. That is after all the purpose of tanks. To be invulnerable to machine guns. That's why they were devised to break trench stalemates in WW1. Should be the same thing here. If you want to take out a tank you should have to use a Lascannon or a quadgun or an autocannon.

great ideas OP.

I read somewhere there's future plans for a mechanised warfare mode, where i assume maps will be very open and everyone will be in tanks or ded

It would also help to have dedicated engineer classes in. Techmarine, bonesinger, mekboy, and...whatever chaos does

So these are old:





But it just goes to show that what the Wave Serpent can do is not unique for all circumstances, nor is the problem new. As far as MYST is concerned, we've done it for several reasons:

Harkus. Because fuck Harkus.

We got a wave serpent up on the main wall and it died in less than 2.5 seconds to 6 HB's shooting it. Nobody is clean on this one. The Devs, the enemy with 20+ HB's that kill main battle tanks, the Eldar, the fucking Emperor in the stain glass windows we never even saw.

Pegasus.

We got a wave serpent above point A and laughed our asses off. It didn't affect the play since we just sat there pissing ourselves in disbelief we could actually get the tank there.

Point C can get a wave serpent inside it. I honestly have no idea how they do it, but it's still fucking funny.

Maggon

I'm not even sure if MYST ever did this. North Bridge. But that was patch... 19... 20? Something along those lines. Can't do it anymore anyway.

Zedek

This was a couple of days ago. We just straight abandoned point A, and B and sat at C because we wanted to fight in the streets for as long as possible. Without their knowledge because of the lack of global chat, we gave the attackers 10 extra minutes of time - half the map, and someone managed to find a path into the streets with a WS which allowed us to play there for as long as we wanted to. It was a great time. The people we played were 2 PuGs that litterally took 4 minutes to take A against the 5 Eldar Pugs players defending it, so I don't at all feel guilty in the slightest having a WS stationed in a back ally as a spawn point/refreshment truck to keep C point interesting - they weren't getting past it anyway.

As far as using it for a tactical advantage. MYST doesn't. We do it for the lul's and the lul's only. If you don't want to see the WS in places anymore - because MYST may have WS's, but so does the entire Eldar faction, take a screenshot and give it to the devs, as I guarantee you MYST is not the only Eldar doing it - nor do we know where all the places one can go with the WS even are.

Yes Myst does it for the "lulz"... It just so happens the Tank sat up there all game in every match I see you guys in shooting down at the enemy teams spawn and basically breaking the game, winning it for the Eldar....

"just doing it for the lulz, guys trust us"

I feel everyone forgets the Falcon. Sure it one-shots infantry. But it sucks so hard at killing other vehicles it isn't funny... Plus the Scatter Laser (which is mean to fend off infantry) is worse than the ANTI-TANK gun at killing infantry.

If I were to fix it, I would make it so the Scattet Laser and Pulse Laser could be fired at the time. Also buff the RoF of the Pulse Laser and remove the charge up time, balance it out by reducing damage done to infantry, but keep it the same for tanks.