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I thought I'd seen it all [Power Fist]

Discussion in 'General Discussion' started by DerelictHeretic, Apr 16, 2017.

  1. PurpleHaze PrplHze Steam Early Access

    Ive said it before, they should have made it where any melee attack makes you switch to "#2" hands. and trying to go back to #1 takes 2 seconds. So Melee is still always a instant pull and defend, but you can't just roll back and Shoot.
    And in the Current meta, yes they shoulda shot me. Any-other time. Eldar win melee's.
  2. Drake De Molina Drake_De_Molina Steam Early Access

    All of this can be resume by: Yes they can be more lethal and already more lethal in the game in term of dmg per hit, but you don't swing as fast as an automatic rifle shoot. Does it allow you to miraculously win a fight against an opponent that outsmart you during a melee fight with a knife? No. (Though except dmg they don't have a real advantage, but everyone agree that knifes have too much durability.)
    Does our real armies use "CQC" weapons? Yes. On which form? Sword? Maul? No, knife, or for some bayonet, or for some ranged weapon that are more suited for close range target, such as short barreled weapons (smg, pistol,...) or special kind of ammo (shotgun as a main example). But keep it mind that they are still fire weapons.

    During WWI, both side used strategies that would not be accepted now as we have way to do the same result with less casualties (for your side, not the opponent side, obviously). French side used their "Tirailleur sénégalais" as grind mea... glorious front row. It's what we call a warfare evolution.
    And in the W40k universe, few still use the meat grinder, such as Imperium (prisoners enlisted by force), Ork (shroom, they will grow back), Sister of battle (repentis, not sista themselves), Tyranid (they will be recreated), Necron (respawn too).

    And really don't listen to any kind of fluff because in fluff, suddenly Tau aim like shit when facing your super SM hero rushing in the clear, swinging his relic powerfist. While normally, a Marker spot it, target him, and he's dead since a swordfish would have probably unloaded its missiles on that VIP target.
    Another even more bigger wtf example: Ultramarines finding a way to not be tasty enough to a Tyranid tendril, making deviate from the normal trajectory...
    So far in the ENTIRE story, no one could stop tyranids, only slow them. Eldar failed to stop them multiple times and lost CraftWorld Malantaï to it. Ork lost too even if they liked the fight (that was probably the biggest skirmish of their life). A bunch of awakened Necrons lost too (well Eldar brought the Tyranids here as it was double hit: slow the Tyranids, take down some Necrons).
    Suddenly LSM come into this part of the story, because Behemot (I think it was Behemot) is passing by Ultramar's system because of the "Jewel of Ultramar" acted like a big target. And suddenly half a chapter (they had their firsts divisions, but many were somewhere else) find a way to give a middle finger to a main tendril and the tendril just leave? Just like that?
    I'm not buying it, those aliens just want to eat and develop so there is no way they pass such a big target. They don't give a damn about casualties.
  3. Delgear Steam Early Access

    you are incorrect ::
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_..._of_the_U.S._Armed_Forces#In_active_service_7
    modern military still use swords .... i would wager depending on the objective tonfas, sharpened shovels(russian trench shovel has its own MODERN USED martial arts) knifes, shields(ballistic and riot). melee wepoans are drastically more common than you think .... especially as our soldiers armor becomes better and better at surviving bullets, yet still only marginally resistant to stabbity or smashity death .... much like wh40k armor is actually quite resistant to bullets as well .... think about it in TT entire units are firing at each other in full auto and 3-4 of 10-20 soldiers are goingdown after being hit what would probably equate to numerous times while advancing out of cover ..... and thats the standard infantry ... thats not even heavy ground assaults etc. the standard weapons fire in wh40k is actually less effective than many people think it is .... HW thats a different story .... but HW have thier own disadvantage (setup times // fire arks //overheat). when you get hits in TT those arent the only hits that hit the armor ..... they are the only hits that happened to penetrate or hit a soft enough spot to penetrate. thats not just space marines ..... all the crazy space armor can deflect bullets in wh40k, and survive las and plasma hits .... just not "every" bullet las or plasma hit. keep in mind when you read a book from any source in wh40k it comes with the pretext that its that factions propaganda.

    you are wrong on both counts .....now as far as in game yes melee dps is significantly lower than ranged dps in game and since you can used ranged weapons in melee (which you cant in most properties) in tt your units are angaged and must fall back on thier melee hell even nearby units cant shoot into the mess they have to charge and engage in melee.... in DOW sereies even the newest one as soon as assaults are in contact with the unit the whole unit goes to melee weapons because if you open fire you will kill 3-4 friendly and 3-4 enemies .... aka you will be winning the engagement for the enemy since thier melee weapons only hit enemies ....

    This mechanic is stupidly not pushed into this game .... if it were melee would have no reason to have to have the same dps.....
  4. Doge TheAngryDoge Active Member

    Because LOL I'M INVINCIBLE TO BULLETS BECAUSE I HIT THIS GUY WITH MY MELEE WEAPON is a far more stupid mechanic in a shooter (this is a shooter). Mechanics like that cannot work in a shooter (this is a shooter) . WH40K Space Marine nothing stopped you from shooting a meleer in the back as he was assaulting another player did it not? In fact you even had a pistol in your other hand if you had a melee weapon.

    As for the TT argument. TT is about unit composition, positioning, and tactics with a bit of RNG involved. A shooter is about aim, positioning, and tactics. In TT, every unit with the same weapon is basically a cardboard cutout pasted multiple times. In a shooter (this is a shooter) there will be differences in player's accuracy, some players can pick you off with a few headshots at medium range, other players need three quarters of a mag to kill you up close.

    As for your real world comparisons, knives, shovels, martial arts and the like are not the primary weapons used. They tend to be secondary for situations like caught with an empty weapon or an area is too cramped for a rifle. Shields tend to be more a police action weapon (as are tonfas which are more to incapacitate rather than kill)

    Melee's problem in this is its designed for a (shoddy IMO) dueling system. You don't have time to duel before some other player puts a bullet in the back of your head. You don't have time to Rock Paper Clang when there is 14+ other guys out there that could look over at you and say "Hey... you're an enemy *bang*" This is why in shooters (this is a shooter) melee is other a OHKO ala Battlefail or CoD or a humiliation/desperation tool ala Quake, TF2 or Dirty Bomb).
  5. Khornatian Khornatian Steam Early Access

    O'rly

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    JPAs (of all factions), Striking Scorpions and Howling Banshees are doing well enough in this meta. Shieldbearers are noticeably diminished in usage, though they still have their niche as actual area-deniers and cap-coverers.

    The ones that do have a problem though are the mundane GAs, such as BestBro, Traitor Assault and Slugga Boy without shield, in essence the iconic 'Melee Weapon + Pistol' combo as their main weapon oftentimes lacks the killability necessary to make up for their lack of safety.

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