It should be equal, but my opinion is that the Ground assault is a bit better for CSM, same with the traitor vs shoota. Most of CSM's classes are slightly better than the other faction's equivalents.
Biggest buffer is better in firefights. It's also cheaper. No fights last longer than 2-3 seconds which is shorter than the armor recharge timer. Powersword is strong, chainsword is almost as strong. Choppa has better strong attacks due to how the animation works out. Also what I left in the quote is pure bias. You don't seem to know that fire is better than poison. What are you even trying to say? Ace dakka has better stats in every way except it does 10 less damage and some less penetration. So instead of killing you in 3 shots it kills you in 3 shot? Sounds like you haven't used the kannon or pc enough. Not sure which one you're missing out on. Are you really trying to say plasma gun is useful? Go try it out. It's horrible. By the way shoota has the same mods as bolter. Are you not using the heavy barrel? If you aren't that's why you're losing. Rokkits are the #2 weapon behind grav cannons for AV. I only say grav cannon is better because it has the snare. Damage wise Rokkits are better and are on a better class. Not sure how you have problems with AI as rokkit. It's an easy 20+ kills/match. You can only compare them to Apoth. They have an entirely different role than Warlock/Sorc. Yes they are worse than Apoth at healing. Rokkit boy is the best class in the game. There is nothing that is anywhere close to being that overpowered. You have a weapon that reliably instagibs people at medium/short range, downs rhinos in 6 shots, has the ability to capture points, has insane survivability with 272 hp/122 armor and 125 toughness, medpack, stikky bomb, a pistol that's almost as good as a bolter, full time dbashes and still has the bonus to backstab from the knuckles. If you disagree you really need to work on your rokkit skills. Here's the build: They're either equivalent or Ork is better. Equivalent because Sorcerer's healing mobility allows them to move with the GA. Better because the Ork can still throw a healnade on the point allowing the Slugga to capture. Plus the whole reason why LSM GA can't capture is because it has a shield. Yet Sluggas can both capture and have shields. You haven't played recently I assume. These issues don't exist anymore. Yeah orks can't run away from anyone, but neither can anyone else. This is the same mentality that causes LSM to say that they need buffs. Do you think LSM need buffs simply because they tend to lose more? They're already the best faction. For what it's worth the Ork playerbase is awful. I'll spawn into matches with A and C being taken with B being virgin. So all the orks rush to A and end up getting triplecapped. Really great players. The only faction with worse players is LSM. This is the mentality causing you to lose.
Let me guess...the marks?Because if that is the case i can give you a list with all the disadvantages...
Ah, but I'm quite good. I can't wait to face you IG sometime. You're often trolling the ork section, seemingly believing that better players know far more and are as such always right (classic gaming fallacy), while believing yourself to be one of those apex players. It will be fun to prove how wrong you are. I know them. I used to play only CSM, but after awhile I felt it was too easy so I moved on to Eldar. Joined a guild, then they died down due to the state of the game, and so I moved to the Orkz. It's frustrating at times, I'll admit, but if one wants a challenge that's the faction to be with. The skills one learn makes one better at playing the other factions. I recently went back to play a bit of Eldar with some OBST members, and had completely forgotten that I never really have to adjust for recoil with them. It was a joy to notice, even with something as underpowered as the DR. CSM has plenty of good players, that much is noticable even when playing PUGS but it's not the 3rd of 4th faction in power as Valnak believes. It's top dog, and marks help specialize the role of a character. They also have a great selection of everything, and great synergy all over.
@Valnak the ork shield is too easy to break for it to be very useful. The unique one is good but it also costs 400 lp for an equivalent durability to the SM one. Also you neglected the part where orks have the worst animations and an even worse turn radius than SM. In a fast fight they tend to handle so poorly that it can easily cause their death. Btw modded basic shoota is better than a rodeo shoota. You'll land more head shots thereby doing more dps to marines. Vs eldar it doesnt matter what you use since they are made of tissue paper.
So you think orks should be better than everyone at everything? That's the definition of bias. By the way before I start pointing out your biases, I will not comment on Eldar. I do not play as or against Eldar enough to comment accurately. My general impression is that Eldar are simply unfinished and underpowered. Sure, but nobody uses that anyway. Plus if you really want to get down to it their banners are better than CSM's because CSM's requires a 150 point mark tax. Meltas were nerfed It takes 4 overheats to blow up a rhino from the back. Therefore Rokkit is better because it's also incredibly effective at AI and has a much longer range than melta. Unless you want to start talking about multimelta, at which point I'm just going to laugh at you. Good point about the grav though. Rokkits are equivalent to killing vehicles to grav cannons and better than grav guns. Ah. I see why you think rokkits aren't overpowered. You simply aren't using them correctly. Here's a video showing you how to use rokkits: https://webmshare.com/play/GZGOA Notice how I duck into cover while I'm reloading? There's tons of cover in this game. Use it. Only reveal yourself when you're about halfway done charging your rokkit. Even if you don't your superior survivability will allow you to tank bolter magdumps that would kill a marine. Sure, I'll let you have this one. It's still prettymuch the same. You people keep focusing on the damage. It has 10 less damage, 7 at range and every other stat is better. More ammo Faster RoF Less recoil People complain to me about AD's walking around points gibbing people, that's very hard to do with AC. If you hold down left click while in full auto mode you will charge up a shot. This shot instagibs people at long range in a large radius with great accuracy. It takes some time to learn how to use. I put these two together out of order because they're so similar. You can't compare apoth/painboy to warlock/sorc. They're different. Sorc/WL literally lose their ability to play while they healbot someone. Apoth/PB don't with the healnades. How this plays out is that a highly mobile environment Sorc/WL are better because Apoth/PB can't keep spamming healnades. In a very static environment like holding a room Apoth/PB are like giving their faction another whole class compared to Sorc/WL because all they have to do is drop a healnade. Yes, I know Apoth's healnade is better and harder to kill. No, it doesn't matter very much. Just get better at sticking the nades to walls or leave them out in the open so that enemies shoot them instead of you. Different uses. Buffer is far superior to regen (which is still 5/6s) in pure firefights. Regen is better when the enemy can't get close and you're just shooting each other because you can duck behind cover. At the very worth they're equivalent. I agree. But at least Orks have the option, no other faction does. 12. Ork trukks are the biggest and easiest to hit vehicle in the game, with the largest rear armor surface area making them the easiest to kill vehicle in the game. This size also limits the field of fire for the gun against close targets making them even worse than rhinos in that regard as well. (+1 worst)[/quote] 100% agree on Trukk and whatever the name for the vindicator equivalent is. However Orks have the best tanks. Their tank does more damage with its main gun to the back of rhinos. About 3 overheats to kill a Rhino. Plus the tank has 3 autocannons including a pintle mounted autocannon. They have inferior coverage compared to LSM/CSM but it's still better. I guess we'd better just remove that option then. Options are bad. CSM do not get any grenade bundles. I'm still not talking about Eldar. This is actually an advantage in some situations. Smart bolt pistols have difficulty hitting orks because they aim for where a SM's head would be, which is over the ork. Easier to spot sure. Kill is based on your own personal skill. When Orks are hit by the burning light lascannon they can still medpack because of their superior survivability. CSM cannot do that. Something like 150% headshot multiplier whereas other races get 200%. I still don't understand why people use this as a huge reason Orks are underpowered. It's really not that big of a deal. LSM/CSM have it and rarely use it. Yes it needs to be fixed but just because this one weapon sucks doesn't mean the entire faction is gimp. Therefore in conclusion if you just stop thinking Orks are underpowered maybe you'll understand how powerful they are. Easily the 2nd best faction.
So I'm trolling you because you disagree with me? I'm not allowed to have a differing opinion? Are we on reddit? I also thank you for linking your video. Hopefully it will encourage other orks to stop thinking they're underpowered. Right but it also costs less. The other option is to just delete it and I'm sure you're with me when I say that it's better to have it than not have it. I actually don't know what you mean by this. I certainly haven't experienced it. Is there a way for you to show me this?
Tbh I think the basic shield would be better off being deleted at this rate. You give up too much versatility not taking a slugga pistol for a useless shield that gets shredded by any range weapon short of a pistol. And seeing as taking the unique one either limits your armor or your melee to a no modded basic weapon it isnt really worth it. Its better yo just play smart than try to rush a point with shields as an ork. We dont have a gives no fucks shield so we shouldnt play like we do. It is better to let a few rokkit boys or a kannon soften up an entry then rush in on the heels of that assault than try to rush it with melee.
I disagree. I find the shield useful situationally. Here's one example: https://webmshare.com/play/KEDQr Here's another: https://webmshare.com/play/M0JqB
