Discussion in 'New Player Tips & Training' started by Rheeva, Nov 12, 2017.
Cant recommend trying this as Eldar, got kicked.
The situations in which you'd do well with a Storm Bolter with compared to a Bolter often would be better resolved by running melee - especially since you'll lose the ability to really compete past the 15m mark which you will often find enemies at even in capture points.
Stormbolter is only really worthwhile if you really, really, really cannot aim despite constant practice. And even then, you'll lose to anyone competent if you're only going for bodyshots with a stormbolter. As for the stalker bolter, it's strong versus everyone if you use it right but loses any viability at close to mid range if you're fighting a competent player unless you are hitting 100% headshots.
For long range sniping, eh. It's a nice idea, but I'd never recommend leaving a player on sniping duty at long range away from the capture point, it's nice on maps like Zedek to have a defensive position, but on a point like Torias? better off not running it, or just running a bolter with an extended barrel and AP mags if you desperately want a long ranged weapon, it also has more DPS than a stalker while being relatively viable at all ranges. As for shooting melee - yes. You just have to have the accuracy not to hit your team mate
Enhance does not push Eldar into territory where they are better than their opposition - it makes them on par. A servo skull is just a way to bring them down to slightly worse than they were before with enhance or significantly worse without buffs - it's strong, sure, but I can never find it useful myself as frag grenades do a lot more. It's great at holding doorways but generally speaking I get more use out of frags + nadetrick. Might be personal taste, but it's an opinion shared by a lot of the top LSM players I've spoken to at least.
Tanks work well if the enemy keep running into them but even on Zedek B point - you can just go around the left and completely circumvent that tank and if you desperately need to kill it, a rhino ramming it and two melta guys jumping out will seal its fate pretty much instantly. They're just not all that amazing TBH. Great for distracting people though.
I see you agree with me? ^^
But seriously tho, lets play this through. The TLASC is widely regarded the Eldar-equivalent of the Bolter, but that comparsion is very missleading. The weapons are mostly identical to their counterparts in terms of recoil, spread, spread after time, only the DPS is slightly higher on the Shuriken-variants.
What this means is that a Dire Avenger engaging you with a TLASC will do so at its optimal range, which is also the optimal range of a Stormbolter, and you both, with the same spread, have theoretically the same chance to hit/headshot.
In theory, in a scenario perfect for the DA, the Stormbolter would always be the superior weapon, even for good players.
The Bolter doesnt get weaker, but it still has less DPS. The reason the Bolter will usually perform better is because it:
a) Gives a good player a greater control over where their shots land, making it more reliable
b) Outperforms the TLASC at other ranges, meaning you can use it to force the Avenger into a sub-optimal fight.
The thing is: If we assume a bad or mediocre user, control doesnt matter and they will not get to choose the parameters of the fight. The only thing that does matter is raw TTK.
To add personal experience, I have actually come to fear the Storm-Bolter more. Well, that isnt quite true, because I know a Stormbolter-user will commonly be worse than I am, but a bad Stormbolter proves a much greater threat to me than a bad Bolter. I will still commonly beat either, but I favour engaging the Bolter.
That is not so much because of the DPS or TTK, but because I found the SB to be highly unpredictable.
If the enemy misses, they miss. But when they manage to keep an SB on my torso for a moment or luck out on the spread, its sudden-death. Doesnt matter, how much better I am or not am, the spike-damage takes me out of the game immediatly and there is very little, I can do about that.
I should've mentioned that you only use the guide on eldar when theres a Dark-reaper nearby lacking trigger discipline.
This is my recommended response to dealing with reaper players.
I approve of this, bonus points because black banshee
I have died enough times to dark reapers, it's time to get some revenge
Was playing this game for few days, got 42 hours on clock. Main and only character is LSM.
Played eldar and orc after 30h just to see what is the difference, or better to say I wanted to feel how they play.
Never played CSM, think it is too similar to LSM so i dont think there is anything to learn.
So LSM vs Orc, dont see big difference, except i played more suicidal.
On the other hand there is big difference with LSM vs Eldar play. So short story short, shit team, lost badly to LSM, didn't fill half of the ABC bar.
Still amazing experience. Played with Eldar gunner. My kill rate jumped by 5 times, and if my weapon wasn't basic i would double it (had a bunch marines wounded on 50%-10% health when got lots of fire my way from his team.) Haven't lost single ranged duel when I was one one one, just by ADAD strafing and shooting.
Most of my deaths are from behind being gunned down by pistol on assaults and medics. Running away from any assault with LSM looks like impossible task, but for Eldar it is a real chance. One roll, 2nd roll, sprint adad, over the fence or behind corner and i am out on 10%h, health pack and in 5 sec i am already flanking and attacking same group from distance. If i get pressed i am out before they can do anything.
(10 clear LSM death avoided, even when outnumbered)
So Eldar gameplay conclusion is:
Gains from speed are much higher then lower health problems even in duels.
Great speed allows you great dueling position since this is fast pace game. You spawn, you are fast in, fast out. Find a single LSM you can duel him with no problems. Never be in one place, always strafe, so it is drug addiction epilepsy in a form of ADAD all day long. (Reminds me of Medal of Honor: Allied Assault)
Eldar only problem is they are worst faction if they stay static.
You cant have premise of debate, at least not that kind of premise. Premise would be AntiEldarTactics, not Eldars are not OP. What are you suppose to debate on Eldars are not OP???
Also Eldars are not weakest Faction, they are faction with lowest health pool!!! There is a big difference.
Shitposting hurts no one, what hurts new players is Eldar stomping them 8/10 times. New players didn't come from vacuum, they came from similar games. I have played this game 100times before this game, and I have trained my skills for this game before this game was even imagined by DEVS.
Ohh come on, show me faction which isn't teamplay heavy???? Every game since conception of RPG classes prefers specialists. When was it advised to make mage/warrior if it wasn't directly influenced by DEVS.
How many "Best Loadouts" we have for TAC LSM??? One or two???
Also this isn't AmericasArmy 2.0 with one life per round. This is fast paced, fast deployment game. You see tank you kill yourself, change to AV class and blow up the tank, then again kill yourself and deploy as TAC AP.
My ass coordination. Like i am hearing Warthunder Germans when they had best climbing G2. Like it was problem or high lv brain function swarming P51 beneath you in waves. One G2 dives, P51 turns and then opens himself even more so you dive and kill him Coordination my ass, it all came from G2's climbing performance.
Same with superior Spirfire pilots when facing ZERO's. Still 90% players are poor pilots who mostly use turning when faced with problems.
Same is with Eldar, all your coordination comes from your speed.
Like we are playing playerunknown's battlegrounds and not something fast pace, fast spawn. No one plays this game slowly waking, it is Run and Gun game!?
Simply said he is too fast. You cant kill him even if you catch him from behind with bolter, and before you know he is in air and over you. He is too fast while flying in air unlike other assault which can be gunned down when flying about.
And why would he go inside when he is perfect distributor of LSM team from outside???? This isn't a weakness.
I dont think Eldar can shoot ADAD LSM in head, let alone opposite.
With those speeds ingame not even top players can reliably hit head shots (if they could Eldars would be useless, and i am not even counting for hitreg or lag). And this by me is main problem with Eldar. Your speed is simply a little above of what can be reliably hit ingame when we use ADAD, witch makes you superior.
Drop movement speed for every race by 30% and Eldars will start eating bullets a lot more and will become totally useless.
so problem is in everyone else , i don't appreciate shitposting and consider it a waste of my time, but dude/girl you are also doing same thing
Top players don't give shit because they have spaded guns, play in groups and because high level team play can shut down Eldars.
In public matches Eldar speed gives them advantage in every aspect of game. Drop movement speed for every race by 30% and Eldars will start eating bullets a lot more and will become totally useless.
Everything you told us could be deduced by every LSM player in 10h of game. EVERY?!
What you failed to mention Eldars exploit speed trait in game where basic mechanic of fighting revolves around speed. So in short you changed small amount of HP for high evasion skills.
I didn't take dummy as an insult, so i hope you wont take this ether. Your advice's are obvious, playing Eldar like some victim and what is worse patronizing.
sorry buddy i dont want to be mean but you dont have enought experience with the game to understand his balance, u should continue playing the game and come to the forums later becasue right now everyone is gonna get the drop on every wrong thing you will say
Now...how should I start this without making it a balancing-discussion...
For starters, check your facts. The actual speed-bonus we have is 15%, thats not exactly a huge difference.
It helps, but its not a game-changer.
Secondly: you are a bit late to the entire ADAD-discussion. It got toned down to a reasonable level, it is very much possible to score headshots reliably now, even against Eldar and you wont even find anyone doing ADAD in the vast majority of enagements. A much easier, much better tactic against noobs is putting my gun in their face on point blank and circle.
Now, I am not sure if you are debating my advice or just trying to claim 'Eldar OP'. If the latter, please refrain from posting in this thread or I call Asheru.
If the former, we need to set some things straight:
-You compare the game to a wide variety of titles which it may or may not be similar to. Something about Spitfire Pilots doesnt excatly make a good point in a Lobby-Shooter.
-You seem to be slightly obsessed with speed. I would agree that it is generally a very powerful asset in gaming, even 15% but, in my experience, game developers have learned to deal with it rather well. So with EC.
From my experience, exceeding yours twentyfold, I can assure you that my speed doesnt help me in the slightest when I actually have to get inside a point, kill the enemy and initiate a cap.
It also does not improve ADAD, it exists primarely as an out-of-combat tool to position myself, meaning I can use superior speed to set up a fight in my favour, but neither will I automatically win that fight, nor a fight that is not in my favour.
-As for the teamplay, we have 7 unique classes with unique roles, all of which are being played a lot. As opposed to the 5, partially redundant, classes other factions have, where also 80% of the playerbase go with the respective, Tactical archetype.
So much for balance.
Now, what about Fighting Eldar?
-Escaping melee. It is very possible to escape ground-based melee. If you start running within their reach, no, you wont. But if you start running in-time, you can escape easily.
You wont be running from any Jetpacks Ofc.
Whats worth mentioning here is that I really cant recommend running Shieldbro against Eldar unless you have friends with you. You will mostly get flanked, we have quie a few Fusion guns on the field and you can never harm a Hawk. Always bring a pistol.
-A flying Swooping Hawk is really hard to hit. But a flying Swooping Hawk is also not a threat. I know a single person who claims to be able to hit from full flight, and she is very possibly the best player in the game.
As I've said: the best you can do against Hawks is denying them. You cant kill them but you can stop them from killing you.
The game is primarely won inside buildings. The HAwk is great to intercept people who are running to a point of foot, but all you have to do is deny them long enough to reach the actual point.
This is my absolute favorite class and yes stealth alone is mostly useless unless you know how to use it proactively. Positioning and flanking are still very important as is sticking to the dark, alongside edges, corners, alcoves and opposite areas of interest to the enemy. And where possible out of the line of site of your target is critical to victory. Also don't underestimate the side arm pistol, a quick evade while their parrying thin air and a couple of shots to the face and their done. love it.