So, obviously the Kannon is getting all the heat right now, but I think that the problem is not exclusively the Kannon. Rather, it's that its counters have all gone the way of the Dodo. Right now, the only "Balanced" long-range match the Kannon can face is the Kannon vs Starshot Reaper, leaving CSM/LSM without any real ranged options to fight back (No, Stalker isn't good enough). For this I believe a general pass needs to be done to all potential 1-hit KO weapons, and several others. My goal with the following propositions is to even the long-range playing field, and to increase visibility (And counterplay) as much as possible: Plasma Cannon: The Direct shot needs to Kill, not Down. Direct shot only, Splash (AKA aiming at the feet/wall/nearby ally) needs function exactly like they work now (They down). Hitting a Direct shot with the Plasma Cannon is much harder to do than on Kannon/Starshot. It's slow, has a huge arc, and you can clearly see it coming from a mile away. On top of it, it only downs. Downing is basically useless on entrenched positions with a lot of Medics. That it can fire 2-3 shots is useless if the enemy is now safely downed behind cover after the first. Upping the damage on the DIRECT HIT could also make it useful against vehicles again, something that was lost on its nerf. If it could work like the Kannon on anti-vehicle (Meaning less damage than Las, but not worthless) would be great. Lascannon/Zzap: Revert the "Spread at long range" nerf. Make the Ork Laser more visible. The Lascannon used to have a niche as extreme-range anti-devastator support. It rarely scored a kill, but when it shot it was a guaranteed dead, no downing. If anything, it kept pressure on heavies to keep bracing-rebracing whenever they saw the laser pointing at them, which is actually quite valuable; as it forces enemies to stay mobile. The nerf to the gun made it possible for heavies to brace on railings undisturbed, knowing that they could safely ignore the laser pointing at them. Also, if possible the Ork laser needs a color change or to be made brighter. The faint blue tends to blend into the background a bit too well. If anything, I wonder why the Devs didn't go with a bright green laser, these are orkz after all!. Reaper Launcher: Starshot charge needs to be more visible. Starshot needs to be made the default mode, and Starswarm the alternative mode. Knowing when the weapon actually fires is a bit hard to tell from the opponent side. It glows yes, but the "moment before firing" doesn't seem to glow much different from when it just barely started charging. So basically all you can tell is that it is charging. I'd prefer if it glew a bit more extremely depending on how far from the charge it is. Also, since apparently making Starwarm even remotely useful is against the Dev's intention for this weapon, can we at least have Starshot be made the default? Most new players that try it don't know about presing X, they fire the Starswarm and deem the weapon worthless. I have spent a not-insignificant amount of patience explaining new players how to use it everytime I see a swarm of insect bites flying at the enemy. Tempest Launcher: Make it not cost an arm and a leg. Honestly, I don't know what could be done with this weapon. The only thing I know is that it costs way too much for what is at best a sidegrade to the Reaper Launcher. Ace Dakka Suppression needs to go. Maybe add that 10 damage back. No brainier for most everyone. That it kept its supress is an obvious oversight and it's making the weapon too good. It's also overshadowing the regular Dakka Deffguns. Why would you ever use the normal one when you can get an Autocannon with the same feature? Kannon Give it a Smoke Trail that remain a bit after firing. Make the charge even more obvious. What, where you expecting more? No. The goal here was to even the playing field. If all the above changes go through, a Kannon won't so easily just brace and start racking kills. Enemies will kill the Kannon just as easily as the Kannon kills, resulting in balance. If anything, this changes would fix the biggest issue with the Kannon: Which is knowing where the shots are coming from. Also, the charge needs to be more obvious, because currently you can only really tell the charge is happening if you are staring straight at the barrel of the cannon. A plasma cannon being charged can be seen from any angle. ---- So there it is. Finally got these ideas off my chest. This the kannon wasn't the problem has been fairly obvious to me by playing through all factions. When I'm on Eldar I could just swap to Starshot to deal with it, but I couldn't do any of that on LSM/CSM ever since the Lascanon/PC nerf. The Ork campaign half-validated this idea (Eldar where the only ones to hold their ground during the Campaign). And nobody thought the Kannon was a problem before either, until the Lascannon nerf happened. When I play the Kannon myself I feel extremely safe to rain down death to anyone, knowing they have nothing to actually kill me short of jumping on my back. That shouldn't be this way. Hopefully some of these will be implemented. I am honestly not even remotely confident any will, but at least it will help players understand that the Kannon that hasn't had any relevant change (Other than reload) in 6 months didn't suddenly become OP, it was a product of removing its counters. And if the Devs eventually give in and nerf the Kannon without touching anything else, the Eldar Reaper will be the next "Omg Launcher OP plz nerf" in line, simply because it'll be the last remaining useful 1-Hit KO weapon, and nobody else will have anything to counter it.
Personally, think the Plasma Cannon is in a good spot. Its only problem like all mortar mode weapons is that they need an actual working mortar mode. Outside of that count me in on these changes.
I'z agrey dat sum sort o' smoke trail wuud be nice. Make da Kannon so ya kan onlee use it while braced or wen standin' still. Roight nows it iz easy ter charge da shot until da last .5 seconds an den move around a corna an shoot it. Keep da AOE an damig, if da umies can't kills ya durin' da long charge shot they deserve ter git krumped.
All of these ideas are good, but the Tempest Launcher needs atleast some balance. Im actually sick of 360 Dark Reapers that just instakill anything that tries to get close. Maybe give it some sort of cooldown beetween moving and actually firing from it.
Well plasma cannon actually doesnt even down(at least not csm and orks). Charged shot from it does only 380 dmg at 120 pen, meaning that while lsm and eldar have no chance of surviving it, nurgle csm and orks will soak 1 to the face and live. Just bump dmg to 600 and pen to 200, let it be at least remotely effective against light vehicles. As for kannon it simply obsoletes zzap, direct fire capability, splash, alternate fire mode, it simply isnt worth to sacrifice all of those for 200 dmg.
Your ideas are specifically targetting orks for nerfs, so here are some counter-measures to balance it out: CSM/LSM * Nerf the hell out of the servo skull. One use only, and make it a copy of the ork healing grenade (can be meleed and shot down easily) * Revert the boltgun accuracy buff. * Make the frag grenades have the same AoE as the xenos. Eldar * Cut the damage of the haywire grenades in half. * Implement whatever solution they have for the roadkills. Orks * Make their melee have the same reach as everyone else. * Fix the trukks' issue of bouncing over at the slightest uneven piece of terrain. * Instead of lifegain vial for the painboy, make it a speed increase vial, and give him a powerclaw.
I disagree about the last one. Speed ain't naf give em a protection vial snd ya can keep yer broken klaw I wants ta use a shoota like the. Marine apo git
Lets be clear, the main problem isn't necessarily balance, its that it is extremely frustrating to even attempt to go after heavy weapon folk. It's compounded by when there's way too many of them, they just aren't vulnerable to anything but eachother and a close combat guy is only likely to go in and kill one before they turn and burn him/her down, unless you have a siege of a bunch of them to break the HW wall. Make suppression effect accuracy slightly not just screen shake, Give it just cosshairs shake or something for mellee, something that would make long range artillery totally useless, but closer range stuff usable, Thats all, really. The number one complaint is due to lag, people are getting one shot by basically everything at very long range with no chance to return fire by all kinds of things, if you stay moving its longer range bullet based guns, if you stay still, it is the ridiciliously overpowered AOE+flame of upgraded kannons and similar that kill you anyway. Laying down a wall of suppression should make return fire with explosive spam suicidal and charging up the bigger longer ranged guns (plasma, kannon, ect) should visually broadcast where the shooter is with a trail or something, That is the ranged rock paper scissors. Getting obliterated at extreme range by an apparently inaccurate area of effect weapon that is actually more accurate then the sniper level weapons as well as having alt fires, and being reasonable in closer ranges by shooting at floors, over and over needs to end. Either that or make it legit: these huge aoe weapons straight up cannot one shot people, they blow off your shields and thats it, we want to have gun battles and close combat fights, not peeking out of cover and then running as the entire area is detonated by explosives.
Plasma cannon- Agree, I suppose. Also fix mortar mode for the weirdos that want it. Lascannon/zapp- Agree Reaper Launcher- Starshot charge needs to be more visible. I think what you're asking for is something similar to the lascannon charge-up glowing brighter as it charges? Sure whatever. Starshot needs to be made the default mode, and Starswarm the alternative mode. How about we un-fuck starswarm instead? Ugh.. Here's what I would do: * Completely change starswarm and starshot modes and merge them into one mode. Charge-up fires the big starshot missile, and tap-fire fires little starswarm missiles. Also adjust AoE and CoF so starswarm isn't shit anymore. * The second mode could be laser guided missiles mode similar to what we have now, but with a slower projectile and easier to control. Tempest Launcher- Uuuuugh!!! Here's what I would do: * let it be able to brace on railings. (like, put the weapon sideways for it) it absolutely needs this. * Fix. The. Mortar. Mode. Bug. - For those that aren't aware, mortar mode for ALL weapons don't work right at all for indirect fire. The arc tries its best to aim for what your crosshairs are pointed at. Grenades work perfectly fine, though. Multiple threads have been made about this issue and it has been in-game since at least launch. Ace Dakka- Alright. Kannon- It needs to have its projectile speed reduced heavily, and bullet drop added, and AoE reduced. AND tap-fire grenade to be sticky, and larger AoE maybe too. That way charge up would be the dedicated anti tank mode and tap-fire the anti infantry mode. Imo.
Dis git noes. On Fortress maps it iz 'ard ter git a shot off wif da Kannon before diein' if da defendaz git a solid amount o' 'eavy shootaz shootin' owt da front door. I'z bin sumwhat successful wif chargin' da shot an den movin' inta fire at da last momunt. Da suppression alone makz it eben 'arder ter git anywhere neer werr ya wan ter shoot. Mi noein o' balanz in dis game in't evry facshun needs ter ab da same shootaz wif da same stats jus' different looks, s'that evry facshun az strong points an weak points. Kannon shud be more o' an AV shoota but kan still be used ter wreak 'avoc on unsuspectin' playaz.
