I actually use the golden autocannon just so I can say "this gun is so broken, it doesn't kill in one hit". I get bonus points if they call it AG.

I only play Eldar or Ork and honestly have no clue on the unbraced accuracy, though I do see them regularly unbraced shooting into rooms, I have never used a CSM. I do die to the AC a lot though on my Eldar.

Nevertheless, I don't want to see the incoming nerf ruin yet another weapon completely, afterall the AC is meant to be one hard hitting weapon.

But, we need to find a way to make it less desirable for the masses, which is currently the main issue, there are simply too many of the fuckers running around carrying an AC. At the moment, CSM do not need to run a balanced team in order to be effective. Spam half the team on AC, a few cappers with sorcs to keep them alive and that's it. Before the JPA alterations, there really was not the same JPA spam on CSM (although there obviously were some) compared to LSM, what does that tell you?

If we were to reduce the magazine to maybe 25 rounds, assuming they are carrying an ammo pack, that's only 50 shots before they have to go refill or redeploy, either way, they are out of the combat for a period of time, dead or refilling, its all good.

We don't need to ruin its power, if I get hit in the face with one, I should surely expect to die.

The problem is 100 rounds gets eaten up pretty quickly. You'd think it wouldn't but it honestly does. Cause you want to put rounds into the space above somebody's head to keep them down and terrified. It is very much so a support weapon.

Also it is the weapon you see the most because it is the best for handling the JPA idiots on LSM in particular (or just bad LSM in general) who think rushing a braced heavy weapon is a good idea (They do the same with my Multimelta for some reason as well. Thinking that a 30m beam of molten fucking murder won't kill them in time.) The issue is that almost all other heavy weapons for CSM are fairly underwhelming. HB is good and I won't deny it, but it doesn't do enough in the engagements vs LSM, Orks or even Eldar.

The gutting of the PC and even a lot of the changes to Meltas (especially MM) made it so it was less and less appealing to use the other heavy weapons. If you want you can get a half dozen ACs and rip the ass end off a transport or you can have a couple murder anybody who comes out (assuming they don't get behind ANY cover) and then have somebody else melt the damn thing.

It is such an appealing weapon be cause the other options are so disappointing. Same reason you'll see a lot of eldar using the tempest unique storm and fury (if it isn't Scorpion/Banshee/Warlock murder waves)

25 ammo? Using the plasma cannon as an AC would allow you to kill 42 people from max range. Your change would allow an AC to kill 8. They are similar in penetration values so I used those as an example to the ammo on heavy weapons. You put it down to pistol levels.

So what is the correct amount then? It is going to be nerfed, there is no doubt about that, but I would prefer to see the weapon remain useful for CSM rather than it become another thing nobody uses. I would like to see a way of cutting down on the amount of people spamming it, rather than damage the weapon itself, but as Mongo states, the other heavy weapons are underwhelming. I main a reaper with SC if you want to talk about underwhelming, fun though.

Race and class diversity is one of the selling points of 40K, there more ways we can fight differently, the better to me.

To people saying you can't use Abaddon's Grace to run into a room and clear the enemy for fear of killing teammates, you are wrong.

The game has a dedicated key for teammates to use marked "E", to apologise for blocking your line of sight.

Woah woah woah. I said nothing about being afraid of killing teammates. Son I wade into melees with goddamn Multimelta. I have on more than one occasion melted about 4 people with back and forth sweeps of a section of a room. Enjoyably people seem to understand it is truly forgivable that I proceeded to MM both them and the enemy trying to execute them.

CSM is generally so understanding when it comes to TKing

I have a craving. And the only mild satiation of it is the screaming as ones very molecules become the ash that clogs my air filters and makes everything smell like wondrous scorched earth.

I may have a problem.

Lsm needs terminators while chaos has autocannon. Sorry not sorry another bitch thread about autocannon. How about we get them outdated rotery cannons compared to assault cannons or vengeance storm boultera compared to outdated combi bolters. Na not sorry when every match against lsm botches agonist autos. Shit I know at least orks and eldar very rarly complain about autocannons when they have worse classes and items that need fixing. But hey salt feeds us

I will just repeat what I wrote back in the day when everybody was complaining about HB being too strong:

I blame the servers/netcode/whatever you want to call it.

Back then it was similar. For people being shot by a HB - and I did experience that myself all the time - it felt like the HB only needed 3-4 shots to down someone. Those shots also seemed very accurate, you could often read "being sniped by a HB". Was that correct? Of course not. If people would have looked at numbers they would have noticed that a HB could not kill with 3-4 hits only. If they would have played a HB themselves they would have noticed. The problem was (and still is) the server not registrating the hits properly. People not being biased about "their faction" should be able to understand both sides. Yeah, I know, wrong place for such an utopian idea.

Now I think it is the same with ACs. What people do see, the reason why they come here and post and what should actually be something that can be understood even by the CSM players is that due to the bad server performance that some (I mean a lot... maybe even most?) people experience, for them it feels like ever being hit by an AC means being dead, making it feel op. By the time your client notices the first hit and the vfx kick in, you do not have a chance to evade the other shots. Rolling in cover or rolling to engage the Havoc in melee will not help, because you will die behind cover or after actually hitting the Havoc with an attack.

I often said in similar threads before: The bad server performance is in my eyes causing a lot of the op threads. But instead of listening to those, the Devs should hurry up fixing the bad performance first. In the meantime, the community should really start to be less biased. Sometimes it would help to play another faction to experience what the people on threads like this mean. Yeah, I know, I am dreaming again...