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Get it together

Discussion in 'Eldar' started by Rheeva, Dec 9, 2017.

  1. Velenor Subordinate

    I agree a lot of our problems stem from certain classes under-performing and others over-performing.

    The way I see it the top tier should be lascannons and multimeltas, then reaper launchers and fire dragons, then tacticals with anti-tank gear.
    As a heavy weapons specialist you give up a lot of mobility and the ability to fight in combat. The Reaper Launcher is supposed to be an accurate weapon used against heavy infantry. aka our long ranged option, with an anti-tank option. If it's able to do both it should not excel past the lascannon.

    the problem with the spawning mechanic is that all this stuff hangs together. the way spawning on points and redeploying works means the attackers need to respawn rapidly on their transports and makes those transports the make-or-break element of the match. the firedragon is particularly effective because the defender can keep respawning as one and suicide run to destroy the rhino.
    A better spawn system means no anti-tank suicide spam, no constant pressure required, and depending on how you change it you could potentially do away with redeployment or transports being the make-or-break element.

    It's all connected.
    Sily likes this.
  2. Mauf DrMauf Subordinate

    Rings true, let me describe a situation where I think with the removal of the TL we lost and havn't regained:
    What I'm missing on the Dark Reaper right now is the equivalent of my gold armor HB Havoc that readies the weapon, walks around the corner in a point room and sweeps some floor/balcony to break a bunkered point. Eldar currently have nothing of the like. What we have is basically shelling a place from afar with Reaper Launchers (which is really really slow) or suiciding DAs into the place hopefully quick enough to buckle the defense and create a bubble that you can entrench and creep over the defenders. The Shuriken Cannon is not an option. Overheats too quickly and the DR does not have the EHP to pull these moves off.

    About the spawning system:
    I currently fail to see how you would change the system to improve it without practically making it bland. I still think the current system has the best potential in terms of impact and keeping things interesting. Defenders being forced to send some people out to remove the transport is a good thing. It creates interesting dynamics and strain on the defenders instead of purely on the attackers. What is missing in my opinion is a reward system for people who keep the transport moving to protect it. IF we get more mobile transports, the importance of suicide bombers will automatically decrease as heavies will become more important to hunt those mobile transports down (and then we need to look at the performance of the Reaper Launcher compared to the Lascannon). If you ask me, I would still vote for: Keep the current system, find a way to reward people for keeping the transports mobile and you will see that Meltabomb kamikazes will automatically become less of a factor.
    Sily likes this.
  3. Lady Rheeva Steam Early Access

    This literally doesnt happen. I agree that Heavy Classes should play like this rather than point-and-click sniping bots, but they dont. If you, even as a Havoc, 'walk around a corner' and face multiple enemies, you are dead before you can deal any kind of damage.
    The Tempest Launcher was pretty much the only Heavy Weapon suitable for a direct confrontation.
  4. Eagle 11 Eagle_11 Well-Known Member

    2-words: Abaddon's Grace.
    Its magic, yo.
  5. Mauf DrMauf Subordinate

    Depends on what your goal is and how you execute it. People (as you just did I guess) always assume this means actually killing everything in a cap room like Rambo guns ablaze. No, that doesn't work. You have to be smarter than that and work with your angles. Because every defense structure works for and against the defender, depending on angle and LOS. What you do is just get enough clearance to take on one heavy and when that Heavy is not able to shoot back anymore (either by dead or by dodging away), you move up and take on the next, creeping your way forward, denying a growing area to the defenders. If more defenders show up, you fall back and reduce your exposure, practically creating smaller windows (in the sense of firing angle) again. And this is what I refer to when comparing to the DR in my example. The DR can do it to a much lesser degree. You can lock down the small angles where you have limited exposure but once you start moving forward and you become more exposed, you have to have some EHP to give you enough time to dodge back into cover in case bullets start flying your way. Further, the HB has much more "stamina" in terms of firing time and overheat because you can stagger your fire better. This is where the TL kinda filled the gap. With TL, you could do this in a popup gunner fashion, get round corner, drop the balls, dive back. The cooldown and firing quickness allowed it to be flexible enough to do it. It circumvented your lack of EHP. The Shuriken Cannon overheats too quickly in relation to shots necessary to kill something (so you can actually maintain these zones of deadliness). The Reaper Launcher just fires too slowly for it to allow you to creep up efficiently.

    Clearer on what I meant?
  6. Lady Rheeva Steam Early Access

    This doesnt (without TL) sound like a Tactic remotely as viable as just running in with a DA and gunning a few people down.
    If the defense is bad enough to fight one enemy at a time, why would I use less mobile, worse duelling class to do it?
    Zarbustibal likes this.
  7. Mauf DrMauf Subordinate

    You assume coordination that is often not there or at the least quite slow in your average PUG. Even guilds aren't 100% super reaction on the ball. And yes, for Eldar doing DA pushes is much better (though it's not a good option). By my theory, due to the points I listed about the DR weapons and EHP situation. And I've seen Guilds do exactly what I wrote up there in the past. Instead of rushing the cap with coordinated waves, they start placing HBs and PCs (covered by Tacticals and Melees) to start chopping off areas of the room to take cover in. Essentially creating dead angles in defense where they can creep up and wrest control over the room from you (You should know the scene of top floors being hosed with Plasma). And this process doesn't need to take long either, can happen pretty quick.
  8. Lady Rheeva Steam Early Access

    @jbregg say, would it be possible to grant select players (like me) the power to create matches?
    Im not asking for full moderation rights or anything, just enough to get the queue going even without 7+ Players.
    It might still take a moment to launch the match but we are talking about minutes, not the hours it currently takes until enough players happen to be on at the same time.
    Also there would be the option to manually start the game and just Play skirmish and mess around.
    Sily, Faeruin and MyrkkyTiikeri like this.
  9. We need factional lobby. Not a discord.
    ProteusVM and Sily like this.
  10. Eagle 11 Eagle_11 Well-Known Member

    lobby chat channels to organize stuff, like faction chat, pve chat, group chat. etc.
    Sily and Faeruin like this.

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