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Get it together

Discussion in 'Eldar' started by Rheeva, Dec 9, 2017.

  1. Catnium Catnium Well-Known Member

    Dude lets be realistic here , you can fit 2 or 3 eldar in 1 marine hitbox
    Ofc there is less whining about MoS.
    They ain't build like match sticks =D
  2. Sin Sobaki TheEmprahsWorst Active Member

    You spout blatant bullshit. Not 3 or even 2. may be 1.5 of eldar body. Not a big difference

    Lets be realistic, lad. LSM cant fit enemy in his crosshair. Discussion about how hitbos are good is so pointless. Just need to aim.

    Again. About eldar and hitboxes. Eldar faction cant rely on dumbness of enemies which cant AIM to make its "strong side" - the low hitbox be viable a bit.

    In past it was a strong side when eldar didnt paid for it 25% of ehp. Then yeah 300ehp(+/- 80 tounhess) of eldar + lower hitbox was better than 300 ehp of LSM (100 tounghness means more than 300 but whatever)

    TL DR MoS traitor is stronger than DA in any ways except armor regen. But armor regen is not a stat which all pros stacks. Look at blops - they care only about max EHP. And here MoS dude always be more stronger than any eldar. Just bacause of raw stats + cqc bolter + frag tricks + SPEED OP yay you can position yourself faster than marines and beeing as powerful as marine. Oh LSM' dream. But nahh Eldar are still Op cose they die like flies but have same speed as MoS!1111.
  3. Catnium Catnium Well-Known Member

    Lad ??

    [​IMG]

    You make me feel like I'm 30 again :D

    Besides you don't need to argue with me , I do fine killing ppl with ranged weaponry in EC with every faction.
    I'm just pointing out that bad people tend to complain more about Elder than MoS because MoS is easier to hit.
    its called common sense.
  4. Lady Rheeva Steam Early Access

    Not quite. Bad people tend to complain more about Eldar, because Eldar are harder to understand. FTFY
    It never had anything to do with game-mechanics. Ok, maybe pre-release, but not ever since. Only that you have to play differently to effectively fight Eldar and that is too much work.

    In any event, and that applies to all of you:
    This topic is likely not supposed to be about Eldar Balance. Eldar, as any faction, have a set of strenghts and weaknesses that can play out more or less powerful in specific scenarios, its called 'assymmetrical balance'.

    Eldar are not 'Overpowered'. If you shoot them, they die.
    Eldar are not 'Underpowered'. If they shoot someone, someone dies.

    Whatever your opinion on this topic, whatever you want to say: It has been said like a million times now and you are not contributing anything new to the discussion. Every Eldar is kinda sick of hearing how 'OP' they allegedly are and every non-Eldar is sick of being told to 'Git Gud'.

    The general problem is that Eldar, in their current state, are deeply unsatisfying to play and play against. They need fixing, but for 'fun' reasons, not for balancing reasons.
    It is in all of our interest to make that process as fair as possible and consider concerns from both sides equally, not just a singular or assymmetric answer.

    Regardless. There is a pretty good chance this topic was never supposed to be about Eldar so just try not to make it about Eldar.
  5. Zarbustibal Zarbustibal First Blood!

    Why would that be too much work? :D The only thing you have to do differently is to look for scorpions and keep the transports on the move (but you should do that anyway). The rest is pretty much the same as fighting Orks or LSM/CSM. Or am I wrong?
  6. Lady Rheeva Steam Early Access

    Ok, yesteday: I see maybe 5-6 Chaos Marines approaching an undefended point. I spot, call out in chat and then descent upon a close rock and start shooting them.
    They immediatly all stop, on open field and start shooting back. At 60m distance at a Hawk who only has to make one step back to kill LoS or can just fly away anytime. Soon as they stop shooting, I step back out, kill one of them, they fight me again, havent moved an inch. Within the next minute, my team arrives and we mow them down.
    Had they just gone into cover and proceeded to the point, they could have initiated a cap, worst case I might have killed one of them. This way, I killed 3 and they never got close to the point.

    Just as an example. Scorpions and counter-AV are one thing. Hawks another. Additionally, there is road safety aka 'dont walk in front of Lawnmovers', Serpent Hunting aka 'maybe kill the Lawnmovers going after our Rhinos', Reaper-Launcher-Awareness, the "they're right behind me, arent they?"-protocol for dealing with multiple Eldar and, last but not least, "how to win against a class with half my EHP" or "Dire Avengers suck, so how are you loosing?"
    Arafael likes this.
  7. Zarbustibal Zarbustibal First Blood!

    Haha :D that sounds too funny :D but this is just stupidity and has nothing to do with changing the way you play against eldar. I mean stopping in an open field to shoot one guy is just begging to be killed, no? Dont walk in front of Tanks/Transports applies for all factions I think (Its just easier to get run over by Eldar ones). Anyway I dont think it should be much work to adjust your playstyle when you fight against Eldar. Which does not happen alot for me to be fair :OrkMoon: (No Eldar Matches when I play -.-)
    TheEmprahsWorst likes this.
  8. Tawks Tocks Member

    no eldees or orks. just LSM and CSM
  9. Velenor Subordinate

    how many times have we assembled lists and given our 2 cents on what is wrong with the game and express xenos feel neglected? pretty often.
    What did bE do? they nerfed the fusion pistol and gave us a gold plated shuriken pistol that took minutes to create.

    I don't have any faith left to be honest.

    the tempest launcher is horribly designed, like the kannon deffgun. It's an area on effect kill weapon. meaning it's going to be OP when it works, and useless when it doesnt. wounding enemies doesn't mean anything in a game where medics and supply boxes are everywhere and such a design should never have been put into EC to begin with. You can't fix it without fundamentally changing it.

    the Fire Dragon is overpowered because of the ease at which it kills tanks, but that's only because theyre using tactical marines are a baseline for what a decent anti tank player can do. They should be using lascannons and multimeltas as a baseline, reduce the damage from melta bombs and possibly change the spawning system so players dont spawn in a trickle and anti tank players actually get a chance to do some damage before new players spawn in. Destroying vehicles is too easy in terms of how much damage it takes, but too hard in how players will spawn on top of you.
    the entire game's design depending so heavily on transports is a flaw too, and at the end of the day the team with the best anti-tank is going to have an advantage. Fire dragons need a nerf, but the entire vehicle vs player balance needs to be reworked too.
    Zarbustibal likes this.
  10. Mauf DrMauf Subordinate

    No disagreement on the weapon design of the tempest launcher. That thing by it's nature is a fickle thing to balance. The problem arises when you compare how it was used against the other heavy weapons available. What "niche" it fulfilled, so to speak. For all it's OPness it filled a gap that we still have: The DA underperforming when it comes to assaulting entrenched points. What I criticise is not the TL nerf by itself. Hell, they could remove the weapon altogether so long as they elevated something up to fill the gap.

    The FD situation runs on a very similar path if you think about it. FD is so well liked and rabidly defended because it's supposed to be better than a tactical or heavy at killing vehicles. That's its niche, it pays for it in versatility and the lack of capture key. If any changes are done to the current system, it would have to be applied to all factions equally so FD stays a more effective AV in terms of TTK than the tacticals or heavies. Which would open the problem of how it would pan out with spawn pressure on Eldar defending and so forth but I would be willing to accept a change there without complaint. What I'm strictly against is just removing the double melta bomb from FD in the current system. That would be outrageously unfair.

    About the whole vehicle spawn mechanic: I think it's fine. It gives those transports value, makes them important and impactful. That they're so quickly disposed is part of the whole. I don't like the FD doubletap and done either but as you correctly stated: The single meltabomb + melta overheat on tactical is too good currently to allow for any room for FD effectiveness reduction.

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