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General Eldar Strategy

Discussion in 'Eldar' started by Demetri_Dominov, Jan 2, 2017.

  1. Demetri Dominov Demetri_Dominov Arkhona Vanguard

    I have to be careful talking about this, as any strategy discussed will quickly find a counter, and likely change the meta of how you encounter enemies as they read this. This will not involve a detailed description and will probably be pretty close of a description to how to win any game, but the fact of the matter is no matter what you do, if your team is not on board, it will not achieve victory. As an extreme specialist, pick a role, know the role, and serve it well. In order of jobs any single person needs to do it's:

    Tank Hunting
    Claiming Points
    Killing the Back Line (Healers and Heavies)
    Healing (which is very important).

    Communicate. Communicate. Communicate.

    Be flexible and willing to change classes between a few things as the team needs. Certain maps need more things than others. On a Fortress, there's really nothing stopping a force from using 30 reapers in the first minute of the game to destroy the quad cannons or fire insane volleys that obliterate tank columns.

    So initially, it would seem I would be advocating for every Eldar in the game to run Fire Dragon. I'm not. In fact, for every 10 Eldar you really only need 1, and really only if tanks are on the battlefield. If you're a FD in a lul of vehicles, find a GA with a MoN, Shieldbro, or any melee Ork and roast them. The melta ignores their defenses, it is at a disadvantage against ranged, if you can't tie ranged up in melee (you have ample points to invest in a very good knife), flee.

    Certain maps require more vigilance than others. Olipsis attack generally comes in waves. Most LSM PuGs will stack rhinos on C, the front of B, and pretty much everywhere on A, they will be harder to find on A the more experienced they are. Guilds of all races will pack them in the back of B. It is a tried and true method of surrounding a point in order to overwhelm it, which is usually how most PuGs operate. Most PuGs will do the following: losely group up go for a point, maybe one or two attack another point. You have a distinct advantage over other races. Swooping Hawks make excellent scouts. Ask them to report what they see on each point and communicate with the team. No one else does this, nor can they effectively. Scorpions are just as good at this, so in a domination map, scout with Hawks, sentry with Scorpions. This information is vital. It doesn't have to be detailed. "Nothing at C", or "7 at B" can mean the difference between an uphill fight and a complete breakdown of the enemy.

    Which leads to hawks. Hawks are phenomenal at disruption. Please for the love of our Gods don't equip hawkseer grenades. Invest in anything else, and the screenshake affects pretty much everyone. They are a direct counter to melee which CSM love to spam - because it's easy to. They are fantastic against a force that likes to bunch up. Orks have good counters to them so beware - they are exceedingly tough, so hawks talon are an almost must. If you get an enemy to shoot back at you, your job is done. Disengage, survive, come back. Keep going in circles, before the enemy gets inside the point. It's much harder to survive head to head against an enemy in a firefight. It'll be 50/50 most of the time, which is not what you want.

    Dire Avengers play how every LSM wants to be. They have assault rifles/SMGs. They are not 50/50. These will shred just about anything before you if you can get headshots. LSMs are learning to use SBs. They really hurt and will leave you at about 10% hp if you even win. Get to your objective, get out, fight in close quarters whenever possible, use melee if anything heavier than a bolter is within range. Rush to the side of a devestator class and check into him to keep him from firing. DAs and FDs are actually suprisingly effective against melee. Hawks can totally destroy the back line on their own if left unchecked. All three will need backup for this duty - apoths and sorcerers especially are difficult targets.

    Scorpions: Best defenders in the game. Excellent at even further pressure on the back line while attacking. Their chainsword is T2, so leave the dedicated assault classes to baneshees and hawks if at all possible. Great to fill a team against ranged enemies due to their toughness armor and sustain. So at this point you should start really seeing a pattern:

    Lots of Ranged - (LSM and Autocannon loving CSM) Scorpions and yet to mentioned Baneshees / Warlocks)

    Lots of Melee - Hawks, FDs, DAs, well positioned DRs, Eldar Vehicles (avoid becoming the Lawnmower, learn to actually use them).

    Banshees - the closest equivalent to a calvary charge. They aren't the ground assaults of other races, which means they absolutely need some sort of distraction or support. Enter Hawks. Hawks can follow Banshees like carrion and enforce their will. Hawks pick off assaults, and Baneshees utterly dominate the back line of ranged characters. With a warlock trailing and a good path (learn the map and experiment where you can go), Eldar can break open just about anything. But you need help from afar.

    Dark Reapers fill the gap. They are possibly the trickiest to do. Basically, judge your team and make a choice; aim your sights pretty much wherever they are needed to round out the force. And the DRs have a major advantage over FDs. Kill tanks/quads with the RL, then find and pick off heavy weapons and snipers with the starshot. You virtually never have to be at risk if you don't want to. Use a falcon. Sit way back, pick off virtually everything with the tank and if something needs a bit more finesse (or firepower like a pred) stash the tank and punish the thing. So now, the weakness of the DR becomes a great strength, communicate with other DRs and taxi them with you. Several reapers, even with a RL firing together spells destruction of pretty much anything. The risk that you'll eventually have to take is getting to the point. Your tank, a Falcon, allows the safest passage use it and protect it, it's super fast. Lead away from battle, get behind even a predator and take it down in 4 hits without him even knowing.

    On an attack, you only need 2 points to win a match if you capture them both within the first 3 minutes of the game. It's ok to sacrifice one or even both of these points if the force can claim the final point and regain another. (I will try to find an actual number for this), but you generally want to take on the hardest point first so you don't have to work on it later. This makes fights fairly predictable once you know what you're looking for. You can watch guilds do this on a regular basis:

    B on Pegasus
    C or A on Olipsis
    C or B on Blackbolt
    B or C on Medusa
    B or A on Torias

    Now this doesn't mean that it happens every time. It doesn't mean you should do this, but these are arguably the toughest points on the map to take if well defended. On attack, you should definitely take on this point as quickly as possible. On defense, you can survive all but a full on coordinated guild onslaught, which coincidentally, is your best chance of surviving anyway. If you end up against a full on guild, abandon all of your points except the two you can most easily defend. You give them an extra few minutes of time and some influence, but it will be one hell of a fight for even a guild to take you on. It will come to them absolutely having to take that last point from you and it's sometimes harder to do than even a fortress map. Consider Blackbolt C. There's only two ways in. It's a great position to fall back to at the end of the game, which is why most players will attack it first. It's not a bad strategy, but just think about now that it's public knowledge - LSM will undoubtedly sit on that point, maybe even the whole game. That's ok. A defender loses if they turtle on a single point without stalling for time on the second point. So while you can put up a great fight, don't full on retreat right away. Lose a point one at a time if possible. Also, with scorpions and hawks feeding info, it should be fairly easy to get a DA to recap a point you may have lost. Even a contested point helps slow the progress bar.

    There's more, especially in grand strategy. But I think that's good enough for now. I will be observing the Eldar PuGs. If you have any questions or wish to help our community strengthen, PM me.
    Tenevhrael, Iyan, Miirk and 12 others like this.
  2. Razmirth Razmirth Subordinate

    Great basic strategy guide. I definitely fulfill the striking scorpion role fine, but great advice on Hawks and reapers especially. I find it hard to be extremely successful in these roles, and I've never considered using the reaper launcher as it seems to not be overly accurate. But the idea of several reapers in a tank running around, laying down fire and blowing up tanks and get back in the tank is a great idea. I'll have to try it.

    And you've also reminded me to be communicative as a Scorp. Sometimes I'm invis at a point and I could easily type how many enemies there are, and I often don't.

    And I'm gonna try out Hawks more now!
    Demetri_Dominov likes this.
  3. Arnedor Ardean Steam Early Access

    Good stuff. This probably should be a sticky for new players. Otherwise, lets keep this bumped.
    Demetri_Dominov and Brujah like this.
  4. Shiani Brujah Preacher

    Excellent description of basic strategy. I don't think it gives anything away that opposing players wouldn't be able to work out pretty easily, so no risk of any change to the meta.
    Demetri_Dominov likes this.
  5. Jack9 Recruit

    > I'm not. In fact, for every 10 Eldar you really only need 1,

    In any assault defense scenario, 4 is better than 1.
    In any skirmish defense scenario, 3 is better than 1.

    In any CP melee fight, I prefer to see 1 after they are done clearing a vehicle.
  6. Demetri Dominov Demetri_Dominov Arkhona Vanguard

    It depends. I would prefer they redeploy to something else after they're done clearing vehicles as their role is generally complete and can serve the team better if they did something else. In a hurry, FD's are fine at adding to the mass on a CP, especially against Orks and Chaos as they both stack T rather than armor and favor heavy melee. It only works against LSM if they didn't bring Storm Bolters or have a line of heavy weapons pointed back at you - and that's becoming more and more common as their new recruits get more familiar with the game.

    It also depends on the map. Not just the scenario. Like 4 FD's is really just fine on Pegaus because neither side will run out of armor in the entire game and the map is tight. Dark Reapers suffer after they've downed quad cannons as they can't effectively cover much of it at once. I've been the only only FD on a team there and literally plowed through 20+ tanks in a match. On Olipsis, if a DR, or several, mount up in a Falcon, they can engage and dispatch tanks faster than FD's can even get to them, and then add a bit of long range fire support to even prevent people from getting to the point - or ensure allies do.

    But in terms of effectiveness vs lives conserved: Dark Reapers are far better at holding the line than FD's in terms of casualties, it's important on a defense scenario, and can be vitally important on an attack where you want your force to not sustain casualties either - it allows it to fight at nearly fully strength, while the defenders scramble back to the point. Which makes them much better at engaging on their terms. This is something I didn't really mention before. Eldar want to enact control over the battlefield, in some cases, like with some pretty serious coordination they can wrest a sense of order and calm for their own forces while the enemy totally falls apart. This goes pretty deep, but let's just leave it that both FD's and DR's are important, but if you have the choice - in terms of efficiency, risk, and flexibility, DR's win because: they rarely have to risk themselves or a tank for the kill, they spend about 5% of their ammo on killing a tank (less for every one of them helping), and if the enemy really wants to come get rid of you - they have to come to you.

    The caveat is that with SH supporting FD's - (this is something you absolutely have to communicate with your team beforehand) haywire grenades make FD's job much, much easier, and safer. With a sunrifle and haywire grenades, you basically become anti-armor gods that can suppress ranged weapons (keeping them off the FD's) stunning tanks for the knockout, and then go tandem against melee. This is a very very strong duo, but requires both party's to communicate with each other.

    It still has considerable risk though, a FD will never not be at risk, and if I would have the option to build a PuG team on places like Pegasus - I can see 3 out the 15, with DR's using SCans or Temptest Launchers - maybe Reapers to take out the quad cannons right away if no one is going to steal them.

    On a map like Olipsis, Blackbolt, Zedek, Maggon - I'd have 2, with 2 DR's armed with RL's. You can fit all 4 inside a Falcon and easily get best of both worlds.

    Medusa is practically built for Dark Reapers. You can see the majority of the map from the ruined buildings in the middle, allowing you to control major avenues with them. There's plenty of other places, and maybe we can include a basic map of all the places DR's should set up, because it's a LONG walk anywhere if vehicles are smoked right away. I would honestly take a pack of 4-5 DR's over FD's any day unless a vehicle is slammed against the wall of a point.

    Also, with DR's, B becomes much easier to defend (it was already), because they can see every entrance from half the map away. No vehicles is safe within 100m of the bridges that let B stand on top of the lava lake. People always think they need to be on the point all the time. Someone needs to be ofc, but positions like these allow far more "safenets" to fight.. because they'll have to travel halfway across the map to get to you - and unlike the Lascannon - the DR is a great anti-infantry weapon from afar as well even if you only ever use a single firing mode.
    IdranelLives and Brujah like this.
  7. Demetri Dominov Demetri_Dominov Arkhona Vanguard

    The Great Enemy - Chaos

    Now, a little EC history.

    CSM have always done better than LSM, since day one when they were virtually indistinguishable. The reason being is because CSM has had a much rougher time not only put them in more difficult situations, their community comprised of Eldar and Ork players that resonated more with the magic / melee that CSM provided until their faction came into the game, and the scenarios the devs presented nearly forced us to cooperate to even take a single point. Blackbolt right now has undergone 4 serious changes to get to what it is now, and before it was harder than any fortress map. So the conglomerate of CSM's learned to cooperate really well, which transferred well to founders and early access players that form the backbone of the newer xenos factions.

    Now, CSM's have maintained that natural cooperation. You'll notice that they generally travel around in a large pack. Maybe not always, but 70% of the time when they fight on Torias for example it'll be:

    15 people to B, 5 to A or C. 15 to A, 5 to C. 15 to C, 5 to A. The leading edge of the zerg is basically a firestorm, and it comprises of sorcerers that heal up the front lines as it falls, the back line just keeps pushing and eventually overwhelms whatever they're attacking.

    Not that I would like to see Eldar turn into a zerg, but generally on top of the Zerg, I see people actively supporting each other. Just last game, I ran around with a lascannon, in melee against orks. And I felt relatively safe because even if I was knocked down I would get back up.

    Which kinda skims on, DR's can actually join into a melee if they must, they add an extra hand.

    But the point is that while CSM (and to some extent other races) tend to zerg or at the very least group, the Eldar don't always. This isn't necessarily a bad thing, but I'm starting to see Eldar fight a bit like LSM, which is to go in one at a time, rather than as a group, and this is a huge problem.

    No matter what, never be totally alone. You wont be able to completely rely on allies, but more you surround yourself with, the better off you will be - and you will learn quickly how to operate around them. It's funny, even if you only use them as a distraction without them knowing, you will quickly find that you can reliably take on forces even larger than your own.

    And I would liken this to League of Legends in ARAM. You can't really predict everything that's going to happen as each force comp will always be slightly different, but you can work with your team to figure out a winning strategy. Often, it takes playing other races to figure out what they're good at and how other teams win games and why. Seeing things from other perspectives is extremely helpful.

    Use as few squads as possible. Use the pings. Nobody really does. And again, hawks and scorpions can communicate with them very easily even if they don't talk. You don't have to be squad lead to ping. I promise you, I at least look at them and consider what I can do it with and it's often enough to get a veteran sent your way.
    Aislinn, Forj and Brujah like this.
  8. Demetri Dominov Demetri_Dominov Arkhona Vanguard

    Eldar actually have quite a bit of organizational needs and PuGs should probably group up in the following way:

    Alpha Squad: Aggresive - players to push points. Capping Classes here with heals and aggressive players in support, Banshees, Scorpions, a fast and knowledgeable Shuriken Cannon.

    Bravo Squad: Defensive - players to defend. Shuriken Cannons, Scorpions, extra DAs, Warlocks, Hawks.

    Charlie Squad: Support - players do a specialization. Hawks, a strict Banshee Squad. A strict Dark Reaper Squad, a strict Scorpion Squad, Anti-tank ect.

    Delta Squad: Reserved for me and my guild.... Obviously.

    If it's a full on defensive or assault map, still use the template above, only that Alpha squad is essentially the vangaurd (placed in front) and Beta is the rearguard. Adjust classes as necessary.

    Also, don't walk outside of the point if you can help it. It's a definite way to drain lives on defense.
  9. Shiani Brujah Preacher

    The only times it's usually acceptable to be alone are 1) if you're a Striking Scorpion babysitting the third point when the other two are under regular attack and 2) if you're a Fire Dragon in a Falcon.

    Even then, both scenarios are easier and safer with a buddy of the same class. Sometimes you can't afford to give up two players to such roles though. Depends on how tight the match is.
  10. Mauf DrMauf Subordinate

    If you ask me what the greatest usually untapped resource of the Eldar is, I would say "Flanking". I see far too few Eldar players actually attacking already established fights from the sides. What usually happens is that they open fire immediately from somewhere on the 5 to 7 o'clock of their buddies, trying to shouldershoot at the same target. I guess people are in a mindset that fights have to be resolved as quickly as possible or they don't really think about it at all. That turns most fights between groups into slugfests which are usually won by the side with more endurance and DPS (aka, not the Eldar in most cases). I wish more people would take the risk, not shoot directly on contact and instead run through that door/window to either right or left and then come around at the enemy from 90° or 180°. Eldar with their faster running speed are pretty much setup for this to begin with, their low range but little spread weapons hit the same groove.

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