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Gamergate Discussion

Discussion in 'Off-Topic Discussions' started by Fireeye, Aug 19, 2014.

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  1. Joram Joram Well-Known Member

    If you say Israel is oppressed we have very different points of view on what oppressed is, I leave the matter before we enter into politics :p, just wanted to say that generalizations are horrible, and they are putting tens of millions in the same bag that a few psychos.

    To clarify, I don't deny that a part of the gaming community (any community for that matter) is toxic and even some of them deserve jail for what they do, see people swatting "celebrities" or doxxing other people, but the media choose to pay attention to them instead of for example something like AGDQ , a few docen of nerds doing a week 24/7 charity stream and raising 1 million dollars.
  2. Warsmith Matt Warsmith_Matt Well-Known Member


    Careful what you say Policenaut, only one person in this discussion has the power to censor the other.
  3. Matobar Matobar Moderator / Keeper of the Light



    Not at all.
  4. Matobar Matobar Moderator / Keeper of the Light


    It's very true that the people who are behaving in this way seem to thrive on the chaos they create. However, the best thing to do is to stand behind the people who come out against it. Things like the current open letter against hate in the gaming community should be respected as legitimate attempts to change the way things are.
  5. Matobar Matobar Moderator / Keeper of the Light


    You're forgetting that I'm not fixated on media's impression of the games industry. I'm as much as part of the culture as any gaming journalist or developer. I've seen the good the community can and has done, such as the Extra Life streams, Stream4Cancer, and other charity events. But that doesn't excuse the bad things members of the community has done, are doing, and will continue to do in the future as long as we pretend they're some fringe minority that will eventually just go away.
  6. Warsmith Matt Warsmith_Matt Well-Known Member


    Ah I see, so tell me how a white neckbeard virgin gamer can throw off the inherent shackles of misogyny and become enlightened.
  7. Joram Joram Well-Known Member

    Who is excusing them? I say they should go to jail, some of the stuff that happen it's not just a 10 years old kid with internet access and anonymity, is something serious and it should be investigated, my point is they only treat us as a community when something negative happens, if something possitive happens nobody gives a shit, if something bad happens we all are treated as psychos.
  8. Matobar Matobar Moderator / Keeper of the Light


    I mean, I'm not one to create or perpetuate stereotypes, but in a very general way there's a lot of evidence to support the idea that white male gamers think of themselves as the "true" gamers, or the "core audience" for videogames. When you try to say something like "videogames should have more women," a lot of the arguments against that boil down to things like "why would a man want to play a woman," which assumes a male player is the norm, or "women have Tomb Raider and Metroid" which are just two (successful) franchises among the dozens that have a male protagonist. You saw a similar phenomenon when Bioware included queer romance options in ME3 and DA2, with many complaining that these romance options were "moving away from the core demographic," which again assumes heterosexuals are the normal audience for a videogame.

    There's nothing wrong with being white. I'm white. There's nothing wrong with being a man. I'm a man. To my knowledge, there's nothing wrong with being a virgin or having a neckbeard either. The issue comes from assuming that your demographic is the "main" demographic, or the "norm" for a gaming audience. Maybe that was true 20 or even 10 years ago, but gaming has a much more diverse audience now. When people ask for more diversity in a videogame, it's not because they hate the developers, or white men, or virgin neckbeards. Or if it is for those reasons, then they're the wrong ones. And calls for diversity shouldn't be met with automatic condemnation or skepticism, no matter who from.

    I think the biggest problem is this perception that, because people are starting to agitate for something other than a white male protagonist, or a heterosexual male-female love interest, that the "traditional" audience of games is being eroded or ignored or condemned, so they lash out against it whenever/however they can. I can understand the reaction, certainly, even if I don't agree with it. "Enlightenment" comes from understanding that there are people other than you who want to play games, and enjoy games, and that they might be a woman, or black, or queer, and that this is fine. It doesn't hurt games to seek more diversity. There's no evidence to suggest a relationship between "diversity" and the quality of a game. But if a portion of the gaming audience feels underrepresented, they should be able to make their concerns known, either via social media or with their wallets. Yes, this includes the white male gaming demographic, but I don't think we've reached the point where they can legitimately argue for more representation.
  9. Matobar Matobar Moderator / Keeper of the Light


    I think the most important thing to remember in this case is that the only people whose opinions on the games industry you really need to worry about are other gamers. Hell, every other month there's an opinion piece from Fox and Friends laughing about how games should be regulated by the government because they cause people to shoot up schools. But until the day the government actually starts regulating games, these comments can be ignored because they're made by people who don't actually understand the gaming community, or games in general. So if a non-gaming news source calls out games as being stupid, then you can use your judgement to safely assume that news source is being dumb. Hell, I frequent r/dota2 and every other day some idiot comes on and says we're all dumb fucks for considering ourselves an eSport, since "real sports require athleticism and all dota 2 players are fat and lazy!!!!!!!!!!" Or something to that effect. Usually I tell them they're an idiot and move on with my day, because they don't really get it, do they?

    But if a gamer, or a gaming journalist, says there's a problem with the community, (in my opinion) it's not just something you can brush under a rug. These are people who know what games are, what they represent, how powerful they can be, etc. And you're right, not enough is done to highlight how awesome games can be, in my opinion. But I can find quite a few articles on the positive aspects of gaming from news-sources like The Escapist, Joystiq, Gameinformer, etc. And it's true, there are also stories about how negative the community can be, but that doesn't mean everyone should treat us as psychos. Remember, if someone doesn't get games, they have no right to argue that the gaming community is one thing or the other, regardless. But when you have game developers, gaming journalists, and loads of gamers arguing over these issues of toxicity and negativity, that sounds like a big problem to me.
  10. I'm just sick of people that want to control everything or make everything the same with no variety. It's not just video games, it's everything. People had a fit when Spider Woman had a variant cover that some people didn't like. Never mind the fact that it was a variant cover and if you didn't like it you could get the original--they didn't want anyone to have the option to get it. It's this hysterical totalitarian streak I have a problem with.

    I'm all for options for everyone. I am against people trying to make decisions for everyone else and force thier worldview on everyone else.
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