The rules overall are working much better, yes, but let's try to be objective here: DB still may, for whatever reasons, deflect a heavy attack, and clanging appears to be a domain of Tzeentch. Oh, c'mon, man, what is wrong with you all! I'm really sorry for that outburst, but everyone and their mother (and even household pets, and in some case teddy bears) seem to be shitting on a bolter. Seriously, guys, it's not the place to do you business on. Here's a short guide: A: Get some toughness and +1 Stamina. B: Drop the scopes - there is no point in reducing your field of view in a game with active melee. C: Get "movement spread reduction" attachment. D: Move your ass; don't stop, ever, unless you're capping. E: Aim for the head. F: Do no go full auto. Going full auto is akin to going full retard, and you never go full retard. F (again): FUN Spoiler Spoiler It's all done with a bolter in my hands, after some farming - you do need to get yourself some Armor, Toughness and Stamina. The weapon is ridiculously good, to the point of me feeling bad for using it against Eldar, since DA lose every single 1v1 shootout with me. Every. Single. One. I'm not even going to talk about how it performs against shootas. Again, sorry for that, but I've been keeping it inside for a long time. A little more, and I'd got Mark of Khorne on my shoulder IRL.
No objections on heavy bolter. But boltgun? seriously? lets do some math Shuriken catapult: dmg 20/8m - 12.78/50 m // firerate 750 RPM // spread 1.5 recoil 0.15 DPS point blank = (20*750)/60 = 250, dps at 60m = (12.78*750)/60 = 159.75 Boltgun: dmg 38/12.5 m - 28/60 m // firerate 333.3 RPM // spread 2 recoil 0.33 DPS point blank = (38*333.3)/60 = 211,1 DPS at 60m = (28*333.3)/60 = 155.4 And shiriken catapult accuracy is obviously better. This is the hard math, though im not sure how i should include spread into DPS equation, but obviously its direct proportion. YES, im killing average 15 enemies per match, recently average 18 or 20, but im giving my all as a space marine, and relaxing as an eldar. Not everyone who plays at my playtime is even half as good (im talking about SM team), so my data might be biased, but see above. Sorry for these rageposts, but i cant believe you still argue about eldars being more accurate
lol Just lol. Come back to me when you beat a bolter at 60m with a Shuriken catapult. Guess what, you wont. You know why? Those dps values aren't all there are to the equation, you are completely ignoring the spread, WHICH IS THE BIGGEST PROBLEM. The shuriken catapult could have 10000 dps and still be worse than the bolter if it never hits. So your "hard math" is completely worthless as it is ignoring the single biggest factor namely accuracy and spread. The boltgun is objectively the better weapon than the shurkien catapult. It is more versatile and can be used at all ranges. The SC is good at point blank, thats about it.
But i did it LOTS of times, BECAUSE i wouldnt be so ragefired if i couldnt do it myself. Thats the reason, in the same hands (obviously my skill doesnt change that fast) catapult is outperforming boltgun. | This discussion is worthless though.
Yeah, pretty much this. The only time a ASC is gonna start performing on-a-par-or-better than a Bolter is when the Avenger is just barely outside melee range... at which point the Avenger in question has, in all likelihood, already taken a few Bolts. Moreover, while shooting, an Avenger moves at roughly the same speed as a shooting SM/CSM - he's just a somewhat smaller target. As far as Ork Shoota weapons are concerned, in order to be even remotely competetive they need to have around double the fire rate that they do currently just to overcome the fact that they can't hit the barn side of a broad door, hit like tiny pebbles when they DO connect, and fire PAINFULLY slowly as-is.
Dude, nobody is arguing that Shuriken is easier to play with - as in "it has a lower skill floor". However, Shuriken is a one trick pony that behaves like a SMG for all means and purposes. It's good for close range engagements, it's pretty meh at middle range, and holy farseer tits, it sucks at long distance. Add to that toughness disparity between Eldar and everyone else, and the fact that it apparently only grows with leveling, and you'll understand that Shuriken isn't really better than Bolter. To sum it up: lower skill floor doesn't equal a better gun. With time, you'll be able to squeeze much, much more from your bolter than you do now. Just keep trying.
What are you playing as? Good luck winning any Ork melee. Skill makes no difference there. Last patch was far superior in terms of the melee. The system worked as expected apart from being unable to cancel out of DBash. I can't believe that a few Eldar players had the audacity to complain about their weapons a few pages ago. The swooping hawk gun is pin point accurate unless spammed, regardless of whether you're airborne. The Shurikat is pin point accurate apart from at exceptionally long range. The Shurikannon is like liquid death. I'm getting a LOT of screen rocking, regardless of whether there are any explosions nearby, it just seems to happen regularly and for no reason.
