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Forgrims Heavy Bolter Feedback

Discussion in 'General Discussion' started by Forj, Nov 21, 2015.

  1. THIS. I never fire the Heavy Bolter w/o a brace unless my teammates are all dead or something flanks me on the way to defend the point.

    I use the Devastator in EC the same way I would use one in the Dawn of War strategy series: find some cover, defend the point or support the assault, make sure you have Tactical Marines to watch your back, and run like hell if you see a sniper or an Assault Marine.

    You might have a better experience with the Heavy Bolter if you use it as a deployable turret, rather than use it like the Heavy in TF2.
    Grigdusher likes this.
  2. War4Ever War4Ever Arkhona Vanguard

    Right now it fails to capture the essence of a HB from any part of 40K lore imo, I agree with a lot of this feedback. HB Dev was what i was most looking forward to "specializng" in but right now your little more then a glorified suppression mechanic, a clunky easy to remove one. Literally the only time the HB reliably puts people down is if your in a narrow hall 20 feet away otherwise the spread and climb is just way too ridiculous to do any more then fire in an enemies general suppression and annoy him. I quite sincerely feel like there is next to no reason to play anything outside of Tactical atm.
  3. I think you can mitigate HB shake with lock on.
    And the icon for suppression and spot is the same so i'm not shure if i'm suppressing friendly and enemy at the same time ?
  4. Iron Dragon ByeBye Well-Known Member

    If a friendly is between you and your target then yes you are suppressing him as well. The Devs are working on fixing that from what I understand. Until then watch your fire, because friendlies wont.
  5. The fact that you're experiencing a disparity between time it takes to kill and time it takes to die leads me to believe that this is a skill issue, not a problem with the game....seeing as how you have as much health and damage dealing ability as any other player
  6. Forgrim Forj Battle-Skald

    Agreed Vordarius that is something I want to tease out. I believe I'm a mid level player, but is that actually true? If enough other people are experiencing the same things, it suggests not. But if it's only a few, then perhaps it's a skill issue. I'm not sure which it is yet.

    EDIT: This was poorly worded. For clarification, what I'm trying to say is that if my experience is common, my skill level may not be the major factor. If it is isolated or uncommon, then perhaps it is. I've not yet determined which one is the case.
    ByeBye and Madgenius4 like this.
  7. Twido Recruit

    While I have been able to get the heavy bolter to work for me on occasion, I do find it lacking compared to the bolters carried by tactical marines.

    The problem is that is designed to be generally poor, but good in certain situations (such as supressing an area or entrance). The problem is that other bolt guns also do this quite well and have the added advantage that you are relatively mobile. The way things are at the moment, we are just too fragile to stand still locked down.

    For me, perhaps the biggest issue I have with it is how difficult it is to track moving targets at close to medium range. Also, I'm not sure if this is intentional or not, but the flinch mechanic seems to affect the heavy bolter really badly if you are in the middle of a volly.

    Personally, I would prefer a mechanic similar to Space Marine's with two fire modes. A throttled slower firing mode that can be used on the move, and a locked down full auto. This would give the weapon at least some use when assaulting.

    Of course, going forwards this weapon might naturally become more useful. No one is really abusing how good the vehicles are and once other specials get introduced that may be more resistant to small arms, the heavy bolter might find a niche.
    Forj likes this.
  8. Nostramo Born NostramoBorn Forum Beta Tester

    I love your thoughts, really well laid out feed back. I agree with a good portion, but I will play devil's advocate for a moment. I think the heavy bolter will start to shine at higher player caps/populations.
  9. Forgrim Forj Battle-Skald

    That's not so much devil's advocate as a fair point. Most of my engagements have been against a single target, occasionally two, and rarely three. I would imagine that in a target-rich environment, more of my missed shots would hit a secondary target.
    Madgenius4 likes this.
  10. Zaeryn Zaeryn Master

    SM Feel
    As a SM, you should not feel ponderous and heavy. You should feel fast and powerful. Not only are you personally faster and stronger than a Human but your Power Armour makes you even faster and stronger, not slower. The weight of the Armour does not encumber the Marine as a portion of its strength-enhancing fibre bundles negate its weight.

    The weapons spit but it feels they do so too fast, which in turn leads to the quick feeling TTK of the game, at least in comparison to games like WH40K: SM.

    For whatever reason, Marines are more resilient/durable than Power Armour, which can only take 2 to 3 hits but HP can take 6 to 7. HP does not regenerate at all, despite Marines possessing advanced regenerative capabilities.

    The Heavy Bolter, in return for its bad accuracy and recoil in situations other than standing completely still and aiming/bracing, was given not only screen blur, not only flinch that throws off enemy aim but also causes reticle bloom, instead of simply having the first 2 with better accuracy and less recoil in other situations. BHVR's reasoning is that Bolters/Plasma weapons are supposed to actually be killing enemies but the Heavy Bolter is just supposed to be "suppressing" them, so they reduced its killing effectiveness to give it an artificial shield against skilled and accurate enemy fire. The spool-up time on the Heavy Bolter is supposed to represent the fact that in the TT you cannot even fire the HB when moving, without actually preventing players from being able to do so.

    Time On Target
    The HB should be at a disadvantage in close-quarters, so those situations sound like they are playing out properly. Once the Bolt Pistol is added to Dev/Havs, and if they are properly redesigned, switching to the Pistol should be their best bet in CQC.

    The recoil and reticle spread for the HB do feel quite excessive to me, as well.

    Spread
    Yes. The only thing that should legitimately cause reticle spread is continuous fire with a weapon and that should cause no greater than a 150% increase in reticle size.

    Flinch
    Flinch is supposed to throw off your target's aim so that it is more difficult for them to hit you. It is a realistic counter-part to artificially increasing reticle bloom from taking fire. I am not entirely sure what you mean by 'offline/online' but if you mean get your reticle back on target, that is a matter of skill. Flinch values for weapons, much like their recoil values, need adjustment.

    When you are braced in cover your recoil is reduced, which it should be, and your reticle size is decreased, which it should not be, just as it should not decrease when you aim/zoom in because the fact you are now targeting a smaller and more specific area with your reticle means you can more accurately land your shots on a target.

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