I like Zaeryn's melee sytem. They might be able to change it to that new system in a year or two. It is too late to try it now since we have less than a month before the game launches and they will immediately start work on the expansion. It should be done though or a version extremely close to it. That would make melee really awesome. (going off of memory) I find that the relic armor helps alot, and toughness increase a bit. I like using the more expensive halo. I use kraks and an ammo pack for all situations. Any leftover points focus in health and armor. Mainly armor but the extra health has saved my life multiple times. They should either add a weapon mod to decrease or remove the wind up, trinkets for decrease, and/or wargear to remove it. It would make the HB killer but the mod/wargear should pretty much take up most of the LP.
I'm pretty much running H: 200 A: 125 T: 120 Wargear: +20T and Armour Regen Trinkets: +3/+2 Armour and -5%/-3% Armour Regen Delay Artificer Armour Krak Grenades Extra Ammo Works OK for an all around HB. Might try some or your guys builds just to see if they work better or not.
They tried blocking earlier in development. Melee was too long in duration (so they often got shot/stabbed in the back) and then Games Workshop nixed it apparently. We will probably never get a blocking system again (except shields). Railing against the paradigm will not help when the IP owner already said "no".
The accuracy really needs toned down at longer ranges, that plus the really strong damage is too much. It currently does 55% more damage at all ranges than the Shuriken Cannon, not sure on the amount for the deffguns but it's still a fair amount more.
Yeah it needs to be toned down. I was full auto sniping a squad across the map on Medusa. It's way too powerful. I felt bad for all the guys that were just dying so fast from out of nowhere. That would be very frustrating. Also anti-tank damage is still too high. I feel like it needs to be brought way down, so that if nothing else, other weapons can have a role.
I feel like it needs to be brought way down so that you still have non-marine players queuing by the time the game goes live. I want to like this game, but it's basically not any fun when the majority of my deaths are from heavy bolters killing me before I can react from half way across the map.
All of the suppression heavy weapons; Heavy Bolters, Deffguns of both varieties and the Shuriken Cannon need a nerf, they're all far too accurate at long range when braced, deal far too much damage since they seemingly have very little drop off per shot at long range and should have a longer delay before firing on the move. At present I am literally running around with a Devastator doing what a tactical with a bolter should be able to do, rushing into flanking positions and tearing people to pieces, unfortunately due to the low damage and awful accuracy on the Bolter this is basically impossible and as a result people are spamming heavy bolters due to the extreme firepower the class provides, especially up close, the same can be observed on Eldar with Dark Reaper squads of 3 or more being used as line-breakers to incredibly overpowered effect and even Ork Lootas can be seen doing similar though their accuracy on the move is significantly lower than the other factions. I'd suggest toning down accuracy across all of the 4 factions' suppression heavy weapons, crouching & braced is far too high at the moment as well as lowering damage at long range on all heavy weapons to stop them becoming fully automatic sniper machine guns and increasing the delay before firing when steadying the heavy weapon systems of all factions on the move to prevent them overtaking every single close combat ranged weapon in the game. In my mind at least, close ranged weapons should always beat a long/medium ranged weapon at point blank, so Stormbolter, Twin Linked Shuriken, Big Shoota, etc.
Just a quote note here: Shuriken Cannons only do 65% of the DPS that Heavy Bolters do at all ranges. (As of tests for Patch 21)
So, I will start by saying concur, the range accuracy can do with a slight decrease, especially for the straight out of the gate level 1 character. There is a lot of discussion in earlier pages about this issue, and I think the regular HB players agree that across the map kills are not appropriate. Furhter concur that baseline HB vehicle damage can get toned down, with the option for the damage to come back via skills/gear. Additionally, concur that at close range, the HB shouldn't have the advantage. I haven't played the most recent patch, but in the previous patches, the HB was at a disadvantage in the close range, and I hope that didn't change. I admit I could win in the close range at times, but not reliably, and usually when someone else made a mistake. All that said, at a certain range, if one is standing outside, they need to be punished by the HB. Unless I am misinterpreting your statement of: it sounds like you are doing exactly what an HB should be doing, and the devs should be happy that they got the HB into that position. Get into a flanking position, get braced, and go to town. I play the HB at a high acceptance for risk, so I will forego the flanking for a direct assault, and I get kills and deaths as expected. The HB spam is unfortunate, but it is a product of the maps and the type of fighting. However, the HB has some of the hardest, most definitive counters in the game in the form of melee, and just getting outside their killzone. (easier said than done at times, I know). I've seen HB spamming teams collapse time and time again by the effective use of counter units. No, not on Harkus, please see other threads/posts for the debate on that topic. In short, concur that the long range can be toned down, and that the short range shouldn't be where the HB is living. However, I will push back on too strong of a nerf. There are elements that need balancing, but right now, if you are 30-80 (ish) meters from an HB, +/- 60 degrees off its nose, with a clear line of sight, you are in their primary killzone, and deserve to go down. Whatever changes and balancing happens, I don't think should effect that at all.
Double post, but this one is my impressions of the patch's HB after last night's solo and clan game play. 1. I am probably going to shove salt crusted lemons into sucking chest wounds, but I am happy the devs have stayed the course and not messed too much with the HB. I'm still jumpy that the outcry is going to lead to a nerf that breaks the HB again, but for now, life is good, with the caveats below. 2. The ability for the HB to engage at ranges outside its intended killzone is troubling. I am still running my (probably annoying as hell) campaign of, "please don't call it 'sniping'", but fact is, there are times when I am saying to myself, "there is no tactical reason I am shooting at people that far away". 3. That said, I am thankful that I can successfully engage other HBs at range and chase them off walls. As an example, yes, shooting from A to B on Olipis might seem heinous, but there are few good brace points between the two that aren't horribly exposed, and there is only a small cone that gives clear line of sight. I cover my folks as they go through that cone, and if someone wants to stand in it and shoot back, I think that is the (poor) tactical choice they live with. 4. I can see the complaints about the vehicle damage, especially when attacking a transport from the rear. It's pretty high, and the HB can afford to lose a good bit of it. Especially since I am greedily eyeing that Krak bundle upgrade. Once I get that, I will certainly be able to shred vehicles, then switch back to shredding infantry. There is room for compromise here I think. 5.(Another controversial assessment) People are complaining about HB spam. I don't see that, and think it is the same as complaining about Tac bolter spam. The HB is the baseline dev weapon, so it should be more common than the other heavy weapons. Also, the suppression provided is a soft counter to the braced adversary HBs, so I like seeing them around (hopefully) covering me while I get into position. I say the best way to counter the "spam" is to play the counter units, make playing as HB not fun, so the less committed players will switch to something else. 6. I don't feel like an impervious killing machine. Death comes swiftly, and it was obvious when I got into a good spot because the kills came easy, but death was still not too far away. To me, that indicates the HB is close to where it needs to be. 7. If this is the skill tree we have for Launch, then I am saddened to see that it doesn't look like there will be many options to customize the play style of the HB. It is pretty bland with the "increased healing" and "increased armor" as opposed to changing spread, overheat, fire rate or other things. Maybe the gear will help, but right now my desire to sacrifice range to make a room sweeping bullet broom build will go unrealized. I'll give Forj a minute to stop chuckling with satisfaction. 8. I did bad things. Last night there were 2 or 3 times where I was at a point, with no Tac to start the cap, and was spawn camping. I feel dirty about it. I got no satisfaction. However, there was little choice. I could have turned my back and gotten mowed down by the next wave, or stood there hoping a Tac would show up. I know it is too late for launch, but perhaps the devs could add in an indicator on the spawn page to let folks know they are spawning into a hot point (attackers within 20m outnumber defenders or something). Or, perhaps give everyone some sort of soft cap ability, like a grenade that doesn't start an ownership change, but pushes people out a little further, giving them a chance. Have it expire of the thrower dies or moves away from the point.
