At the risk of taking this off topic, but, isn't the storm bolter supposed to be a higher tier weapon? We are getting to play with it now (and other higher tiered weapons like the plasma gun) to shake out the bugs and ID shortfalls? Is it foolish optimism to think once we get to the balance and refinement, storm bolter will be made the higher tier weapon (Dakka dakka dakka), then quickly shuffled off into the realm of either stupid high loadout point costs or having to somehow unlock it?
I assume so like storm bolters and plasma guns are ment to be somewhat rare advanced weapons, while right now they are balanced vrs a default bog standard bolter, i assume when ever they get the ingame resources in then it will be quite a set back to loose such equipment compared to bolter yet are significantly more effective also or at least i would hope
All heavy bolter! I love that it's actually viable now. The Eldar were fielding a fair number of Dark Reapers and Dire Avengers and I was able to effectively keep the majority of them contained. Return fire while I had them suppressed also wasn't much of a threat. I don't think people are quite used to the heavy bolter actually being able to hit things now because most of them just stood there and took it. That said most of my deaths were to Scorpions, though teammates were doing a relatively solid job of bailing me out when I was under attack. Goes without saying also get targeted by Jumpers a lot when fighting the Marines. Can't be helped atm. With proper support this thing is doing exactly what we've wanted it to do. Edit: Eldar probably weren't the best metric to judge this off of, Marine vs. Marine battles are far more challenging because of the amount of Fists compared to fighting Eldar, but with the changes to ranged coming I thought it was a decent example of how effective you can be versus a ranged heavy team.
Lol, thats the match I was blowing them all away with the Plasma Cannon. I am further down the list on Chaos side.
Fair enough, but there has been bits of posts by Devs scattered throughout the forums telling us stuff like this, it isn't a new development. They just can't respond to any Joe Shmoe who makes a post, they quite literally do not have the time. Any time the spend telling us how they are making the game instead of actually making the game is arguably wasted time in my opinion. Especially since we are still in Alpha. If you do not believe me, do some username searches. Top left of page "Search Forums". Michael Chan, Houman and Noah Ward tend to give us the most info. Edit: It just occured to me that most of these posts will be in the Founder's portion of the Forums. If you do not have access, the counts will likely be low...
Way to show how absolutely retarded, moronic and unintelligent you are by failing to realize the Dev/Hav can magnetically adhere their heavy weapon to their backpack, allowing them to wield their Bolt Pistol in one hand and Combat Knife in the other, while also allowing them to climb due to having both hands working independently. Glad you have no legitimate argument. Glad you have no legitimate argument. Glad you have no legitimate argument. Glad you have no legitimate argument. Glad you have no legitimate argument. You are welcome. My points only prove you wrong as you obviously don't realize that numbers are what provide the balance of a video game. Armor and Toughness values will be different between different classes/factions and between the same classes if they use wargear to adjust them; otherwise, after a class' Armor and Toughness values have been assigned and have found to provide balanced gameplay they remain unchanged. Numbers are data. Read a book. Go to school. Balance is why a Heavy Bolter should only deal a certain amount of damage more than a Bolter as otherwise the Heavy Bolter becomes a better weapon in practically every way, unless greater restrictions are placed on the weapon's deployment or the user's mobility than are necessary. The reason the HB should deal that certain amount more than the Bolter is the degree of balance a middle schooler should be able to see if they read and/ or aren't too lazy to do a little work themselves. Spoiler Bolter Body Shot TTK vs SM: 1.75-sec, 8 Bolts, 0.25-sec Fire Rate Bolter BS 90% ACC: 2-sec, 9 Bolts Bolter BS 80% ACC: 2-sec, 9 Bolts Bolter BS 70% ACC: 2.5-sec, 11 Bolts Bolter Head Shot TTK vs SM: 0.75-sec, 4 Bolts Bolter HS 90% ACC: 0.75-sec, 4 Bolts Bolter HS 80% ACC: 1-sec, 5 Bolts Bolter HS 70% ACC: 1-sec, 5 Bolts TTKs not counting 0.2-sec hip-fire ready-up time Heavy Bolter BS TTK vs SM: 1.2-sec, 7 Bolts, 0.2-sec FR Heavy Bolter BS 90% ACC: 1.4-sec, 8 Bolts Heavy Bolter BS 80% ACC: 1.6-sec, 9 Bolts Heavy Bolter BS 70% ACC: 1.8-sec, 10 Bolts Heavy Bolter HS TTK vs SM: 0.4-sec, 3 Bolts Heavy Bolter HS 90% ACC: 0.4-sec, 3 Bolts Heavy Bolter HS 80% ACC: 0.6-sec, 4 Bolts Heavy Bolter HS 70% ACC: 0.6-sec, 4 Bolts Because of the mobility limitations of the HB the Bolter use is likely to be more accurate, putting the advantage further in their favor especially if managing to attack from the flanks or behind. The HB's lower spread means that medium and long-range engagements should be in its favor, making it best for the Bolter user to move into close range and/or engage in melee with Bolt Pistol and Combat Knife. You asked for updated data that I gave to you and you then shut up on the matter. I will tell you for the 12th time. Right here. Read and comprehend. You were supposed to realize that games without artificial suppression exist and work and the natural suppression in those games works even when using weapons with similar TTKs to each other and without those weapons being able to 1HK players. Being able to kill players means that natural suppression works because good players will take cover under various circumstances such as when at low HP, when under fire from an enemy in an advantageous position or even when just under fire whose point of origin they cannot quickly pinpoint and they take cover even if it takes more than an instant for them to be killed by enemy gunfire. If artificial suppression exists it should exist on all weapons to some degree. Weapons could then give up some damage to increase their ability to suppress, weapons with higher artificial suppression and fire rates(I.E. Heavy Bolter) benefiting more from such modifications. More accurate players can focus on naturally suppressing the enemy with the default HB, while less accurate players can still contribute by introducing more artificial suppression with their modded HB. That particular mod could come with the weapon by default, while more rare mods could have additional changes to the weapon and its ability to suppress. Get good exists. Games have a certain skill level that you have to possess in order to play at that certain skill level. If you are worse than the average player you are going to play worse than the average player and the only way to do better is to get better(AKA get good). You are pointlessly using the elitist attitude of telling players to "git gud" when it comes to imbalanced gameplay, which is not in any way shape or form what I am or was talking about. The learning curve also depends on the target audience, which for a WH40K product should really be 16+. Teenagers of that age should have little problem playing the majority of video games, with older players(I.E. those drawn by the WH40K ip and those that have more money than children) also having little problem playing the majority of video games. Second point, you are obviously interpreting it incorrectly. My idea: Can fire on move at targets within 30-meters. Can fire when standing without aiming at targets within 60-meters. Can fire when braced and immobile at targets within 90-meters. The Bolt Pistol and Combat Knife are far more effective close-combat weapons than the Heavy Bolter is; therefore, if you have a HB and are engaged in close-range combat it should be better for you to switch to your Bolt Pistol and Combat Knife to either fight and defeat your enemy or to at least allow you to pull back and reposition. Being of the same faction and undergoing the same training means that the classes should have similar styles of combat. Using a Heavy Bolter as either a shield or a club is practically heresy, as is dropping it in the dirt. Players should be able to Block and it should replace clanging. Spoiler Both players should recoil after a Block, the duration depending on the weapons and type of attack used. Stronger weapons have lower recoil modifiers so recover more quickly. Players should lose Stamina when they Block an attack and thus be unable to Block when out of Stamina. Holding Block for an extended period(I.E. 0.5-sec) should reduce move speed until the key is released and maintain a cooldown on Dodge(I.E. 0.5 to 1-sec) until the key is released; Storm Shield users would Block with LMB instead of 'Block Key' so would not experience these two penalties for extended blocking. Melee weapons should be able to deal a percentage of their damage through the Block of any weapon with less Armor Penetration. For example, an AP2(5 of 6) Power Axe would be able to deal 83.5% of its damage through the Block of a Combat Knife or Chainsword, which are both AP-(0 of 6). Block should allow players to cancel their own melee attacks. Block should be broken by Defensive Bash for an extended stun duration. I.E. Combat Knife DBash Attack Speed: 0.75-sec. Stun Duration: 0.25-sec Block Break Stun Duration: 0.5-sec Most of you are offering suggestions on how to keep band-aiding bE's bad designs, rather than fixing the core problems those designs have so the band-aids are unnecessary. Regardless of the blood content, which in many games can be turned off in options, you again completely failed to catch the point. The point is, if a game is simple and easy enough for a young child to play it is likely not going to be complex, engaging or fun enough for adults to care to play it for long. You should be sorry for making a fool of yourself. It is not good. It was a spreading of correct information to let someone who knows the wrong information now know the right information they should be using because it is what the game should be using as well. Now that you know it you can begin passing it along to others so they can push the idea into the game where it should be. A better minimum for the Bolter would be 8 Bolts. Bolter TTK vs C/SM: 1.75-sec, 8 Bolts, 0.25-sec Fire Rare vs Ork/Eldar(Heavy Aspect Armor): 1.5-sec, 7 Bolts vs Eldar(Aspect Armor): 1.25-sec, 6 Bolts Spoiler Bolter vs Dire Avenger Shuriken Catapult Bolter TTK vs Dire Avenger: 1.25-sec, 6 Bolts Bolter TTK 90% ACC: 1.5-sec, 7 Bolts Bolter TTK 80% ACC: 1.75-sec, 8 Bolts Bolter TTK 70% ACC: 1.75-sec, 8 Bolts Bolter TTK 60% ACC: 2.25-sec, 10 Bolts Bolter Head Shot TTK: 0.5-sec, 3 Bolts Bolter Head Shot 90% ACC: 0.5-sec, 3 Bolts Bolter Head Shot 80% ACC: 0.75-sec, 4 Bolts Bolter Head Shot 70% ACC: 0.75-sec, 4 Bolts Bolter Head Shot 60% ACC: 1-sec, 5 Bolts Accuracy: 3.4-cm spread at 24-meters Major Damage Drops: 48(or 24) and 96-meters S.Cat. TTK vs Tactical Marine: 1.265-sec, 12 Shuriken, 0.115-sec FR S.Cat TTK 90% ACC: 1.38-sec, 13 Shuriken S.Cat TTK 80% ACC: 1.61-sec, 15 Shuriken S.Cat TTK 70% ACC: 1.84-sec, 17 Shuriken S.Cat TTK 60% ACC: 2.185-sec, 20 Shuriken S.Cat Head Shot TTK: 0.575-sec, 6 Shuriken S.Cat Head Shot 90% ACC: 0.69-sec, 7 Shuriken S.Cat Head Shot 80% ACC: 0.69-sec, 7 Shuriken S.Cat Head Shot 70% ACC: 0.805-sec, 8 Shuriken S.Cat Head Shot 60% ACC: 1.035-sec, 10 Shuriken Accuracy: 4.5-cm spread at 24-meters Major Damage Drops: 36(or 18) and 72-meters With perfect accuracy the Bolter has a slight advantage but that advantage swings back and forth between the weapons as accuracy decreases with both players; however, despite the greater spread I believe the S.Cat should land more shots than the Bolter in close range as the Marine is a larger and slower target than the Eldar, the S.Cat should have less bloom and recoil than the Bolter and have less recoil increase when firing on the move than the Bolter. The TTK advantage of being more accurate in close range should help make up for Eldar weapons not only being less accurate at longer ranges but also dealing their full damage at shorter ranges than the Bolter. Of course, if it is found that even with the reduced accuracy the S.Cat still out-performs the Bolter it could have its FR reduced slightly. S.Cat V.2 TTK vs Tactical Marine: 1.375-sec, 12 Shuriken, 0.125-sec FR S.Cat V.2 TTK 90% ACC: 1.5-sec, 13 Shuriken S.Cat V.2 TTK 80% ACC: 1.75-sec, 15 Shuriken S.Cat V.2 TTK 70% ACC: 2-sec, 17 Shuriken S.Cat V.2 TTK 60% ACC: 2.375-sec, 20 Shuriken S.Cat V.2 Head Shot TTK: 0.625-sec, 6 Shuriken S.Cat V.2 Head Shot 90% ACC: 0.75-sec, 7 Shuriken S.Cat V.2 Head Shot 80% ACC: 0.75-sec, 7 Shuriken S.Cat V.2 Head Shot 70% ACC: 0.875-sec, 8 Shuriken S.Cat V.2 Head Shot 60% ACC: 1.125-sec, 10 Shuriken In the TT the Storm Bolter was a higher tier weapon because in addition to being able to fire more shots it also had the exact same accuracy as a Bolter; however, in a game like EC the Storm Bolter should have less accuracy so that it misses more often, especially at longer ranges. This in turn gives the weapon drawbacks that potentially turn it from a higher tier weapon into simply a side-grade as it should be. The Bolter has better long range capability but the Storm Bolter has better close range, while the two should be rather even in medium range combat. Weapons like the Plasma Gun should not only be less accurate than the Bolter but its projectiles should travel more slowly and/or have drop, making it more likely to miss targets, especially at longer ranges. Plasma weapons should also have the danger of dealing some damage to the user if they over-heat, while Bolt weapons should not.
