Background Image

Fix Eldar

Discussion in 'Eldar' started by Dragonkindred, Nov 3, 2017.

  1. Demetri Dominov Demetri_Dominov Arkhona Vanguard

    The more you buff ranged damage, the less viable melee gets. If you do the math of the DPS of a firefight between Eldar and LSM, melee is basically completely annihalated by the time anyone gets within 20ms of each other.

    The ASC does already have a mid-range option in the form of the Impulse Accelerator. The ASC atm feels like the only Tactical Weapon in the game that encourages players to fight both at ranged and melee. This honestly should be the gold standard of Tactical ranged weapons. Instead of aspiring to buff everything to Bolters, look to the ASC as the example.

    A fact that's hugely important is that the ASC does not handle Toughness very well, thus forcing players to use different weapons against tougher targets. This is asymmetrical balance, and the Bolter, Stalker, ect, pretty much ignores this, even though Plasma is supposed to be the answer here - it's hardly used, whereas the Eldar literally have to change their team composition.
    Wraithlord_Hastur likes this.
  2. Rosencrantz Rosencrantz Arkhona Vanguard

    Explain to me how the Impulse Accelerator is viable mid range option when it's a net negative. Do you feel that shooting slower as a means to "increase" magazine longevity is actually worth the DPS loss? Cause you know, I could just click slower myself and get the same effect, while not losing any DPS if I want to go full auto.
    Sily, Oan-Mkoll and Durash like this.
  3. Mkoll Oan-Mkoll Steam Early Access

    ProteusVM likes this.
  4. Things i would like to fix on Eldar side:

    - Banshee:
    Make her usefull. The Scream doesn't do a thing as everyone knows about the I-frame during roll, and till you land the next shot, you are shot down too quickly

    - Warlock:
    Destructor is meh, and Guard is super-meh. Give us more buffs like enhance or such. Where is the trademark guide spell that would decrease spread per shot or something like that?

    - Dark Reaper:
    Make starswarm usefull. In it's current state you go for starshot 90% of the time

    Also, Eldar lack when it comes to defend a point. They rely heavy on flanking opponents and taking them out quickly, guess what's not possible on defence?
    Sily likes this.
  5. Demetri Dominov Demetri_Dominov Arkhona Vanguard

    Because the tradeoff is a slower rate of fire, higher damage per hit, and a much longer effective range. The drop off for a ASC is very dramatic and that's what kills it in midrange. After 23ms it pretty much just sinks like a stone. The Impulse Accelerator extends that range out really, really far. Its drop off is actually even further than a Bolter if I recall correctly. You should try it in Garrison. You'll deal 44 damage to the head upwards of 80-100ms. That totally changes how the weapon plays. It can in fact outrange Bolters, which is pretty stunning. So generally the (stock) Bolter is still better in mid-range, but suffers at close and far range by ASCs that have the right attachments. This goes with the idea that Eldar are best at both short and long range and use mobility to stay out of the mid-range zone where they're weaker.

    In fact again, this goes back to what I was saying about how the ASC is the gold standard. Your first impression was immediately to look at the sheer DPS and say "not for me, I don't see myself playing that way" and that's fine, stay with the SMG version. Whereas the Stalker Bolter can be used as a Shotgun or the CQB can still be really effective at mid-range and the Impulse Accelerator really is quite different from the SMG version. There's no blending of weapon Archetypes with the ASC. You get what you get and there's a significant difference between them. Generally I take issue at weapons that don't really stay in their Archetype, the weapon violates past balence issues, or doesn't have a stated Archetype by the devs. Like the examples above, the TLSC which is neither a SB nor a ASC and yet has a decent RoF and gets Headshots, so please pick an Archetype here guys, or Ork Ranged. Like what is Ork Ranged? For a faction that's meant to be melee focused why do Shootas have a freaking 4x (6x?) Scope? What kind of joke/waste of resources is that? Same with the Skip Launcha, the slow pokkit Rokkit's and host of other Ork weapons. Most of the ones that fire bullets are just plain too accurate, others just don't deal any meaningful amounts of damage - six Shoota. Yet none of them really encourage Orks to play in their Archetype. Very rarely do I ever see that nigh unstoppable melee rush, it's usually a Shoota/Loota rush unless a dedicated group is running melee. And it's still not quite the legendary wall of Dakka. Nor is being in range of a Sprint Attack really being melee focused. The Rodeo shoota pretty much is just that, stand nearly in range of melee but not quite and shoot. It also gets headshots and is nearly a Storm Bolter. Again, pick something here devs, there's 3 options. Ranged with headshots = slower RoF more accurate (and/or less damage) extended range more vulnerable to melee and close ranged, no headshots = higher RoF, higher damage, less accurate, or something that encourages Shootas to shoot and still be running towards a melee. Mork, Gork? Gork, Mork? Melee, ranged? Who cares.

    Generally I think it's because their ranged weapons are just too appealing and kinda try fitting into the spaces of everyone else. Shootas right now are kinda like Bolters and SBs combined and should probably be given the options to do one or the other. If you're building a Dakka wall, those options should be available. If you want to support melee Orks, again, options should be available and be very distinct. Think of an Ork Shoota as a super sized pistol. I could easily see a Rodeo shoota being a full sized Zip Shoota, and how cool would that be, to chew through 75 rounds in less than a second but have it go from floor to above a players head in that time. Fast reload mag is a must. And other Shootas can differentiate, by being accurate at range but not so great close up just like the Impusle Accelerator. A good indicator of how things stand is how a faction adapts when it's taken away. For example, for a whole campaign, I'd love to see LSM and CSM lose the option to equip plasma. I don't think many people would even notice. But if the next campaign they lost the ability to equip all Bolter options - everything with Bolt in the name is gone, like Orks stole all the ammo supplies or something during the previous campaign I honestly wonder what would happen? Would melee Marines take a rise? Surely on CSM they would, but what would take their place on LSM? Can you even imagine it? Would they even function with Tacticals that can only have Plasma, nades, and Meltas? Maybe we'd see a ton of Plasma pistol toting best Bro's and Tacticals, that'd be pretty cool imo. I'm sure CSM would be just fine, but I think there'd be outrage on the LSM side because the Bolter crosses over so many archetypes. Like I bet as you read that as an LSM your mind went into a full revolt for a moment trying to even imagine it. And honestly I feel as though each race could be examined in the same way - take away melta bombs and FDs can still function just fine, take away the entire FD class and reapers can pick up the slack take Shuriken's and suddenly DAs litterally only have knives. Yet generally speaking the DA is still capable of supporting units near them since their most common effective range is Sprint Attack distance, and I would argue that had tactical units gotten a viable Sprint Attack that translates into about the same DPS as a ranged weapon can put into their chest in that time the DAs would still honestly be a threat in that range. Would Orks stand on their own without most of their Ranged weapons? More importantly, do they still fulfill the Archetype or is a single weapon propping it up or shutting another Archetype down?All of those examples show that the Eldar are best at long and short range, but not mid. The hawk has been battered by no less than 4 nerfs and I think it's still in violation of the Archetype, which is why it's been so battered - it keeps fighting in mid-range and winning yet doesn't have the options to be either short or long ranged. And if I recall correctly, CSM is strongest at melee and Mid range is second yet has Autocannons that rekt the long range quite easily. Not saying they're OP, they just seem out of place for the Archetype. Same with everyone else with dozens of other examples. So as balence ever gets worked on it's important to ask if these archetypes are being violated, not just on paper, but in practice?
  6. Rosencrantz Rosencrantz Arkhona Vanguard

    Ah, it was rare for me to be in any shooting situation where I wasn't at CQC range with the DA, so I never noticed the big damage drop off increase. This might actually make me carry an ASC loadout again for that new map. I still feel that the ASC needs a magazine/ammo pool upgrade to actually be gold standard though, since right now TL-SC (and air burst grenades) are the only reliable way for the DA to get multi kills before reloading and that will still put you at near melta ranges.
  7. Dragonkindred Dragonkindred Arkhona Vanguard

    Thanks mum. :p

Share This Page