Background Image

Fix Eldar

Discussion in 'Eldar' started by Dragonkindred, Nov 3, 2017.

  1. Dragonkindred Dragonkindred Arkhona Vanguard

    It's November the 3rd 2017. There has not been a post in this forum since October the 11th.

    This obviously points towards the neglect and imbalance against Eldar. It is time for bE to anti up.
    ProteusVM and Sily like this.
  2. #giveDA25armor
    Firskon, Dragonkindred and Sily like this.
  3. Lady Rheeva Steam Early Access

    I dont think the lack of players is related to balancing problems, but since it truly has been too long since we had a proper discussion:

    Eldar Assets that are perfect. Just the way it should be:
    -Swooping Hawks
    Eldar Assets that are generally fine, but could use some improvements:
    -Dire Avengers
    -Striking Scorpions
    -Wave Serpents
    -Dark Reapers except for the Tempest Launcher
    Eldar Assets that would have needed a priority rework 6 months ago:
    -Fire Dragon
    -Howling Banshees
    -Tempest Launcher

    One thing new on this Agenda are the Tanks. Its very hard to adjust the pysics engine regarding roadkills, devs can either turn them on- or off. At this point, preferably I would have them turned off and instead buff the weapon systems of both vessels by like 200%.
    Improving the gameplay, buffing the tanks but get less people whining about it. Win/Win/Win.
  4. Proteus Lychoro ProteusVM Forum Beta Tester

    TBH. I'd rather not fuck with dire avenger durability, but they need some more versatility. The main issue with the dire avenger isn't that the weapons are bad but that they have no role in the game outside of one specific function. They desperately need weapon mods that can make these weapons better in other roles too - such as upgrading the ASC to deal more damage at mid range.

    I'd actually look into giving the ASC less damage fall off over distance when using a scope, so you can deal more damage at mid range if you commit to ADS with a scope, but you fall prey to the usual drop off when simply in ironsights or hipfire. Might be a nice way to balance those changes, since Eldar do currently have the second highest DPS across the board.

    Hell, some weapon mods might not be a bad idea. 'Heavy Barrel' which increases the damage per shot and damage drop off to further but slows rate of fire slightly, more alpha damage and slightly less DPS - should be a significant improvement though, something like 30 damage per shot at 550 RPM (30 * 550 / 60 = 275 DPS) sounds about right.

    I'm also rather curious why Dire Avengers are exactly the same stamina as L/CSM or even ORK units. Surely they should start with a baseline of 3 stamina - especially since, when you practice shoulderbash > evade > shoulderbash, you can perform an incredibly fast set of movement animations which not only looks awesome on an Eldar unit, but covers a lot of ground.

    The only issue with all of these is the buffs Eldar have - so I'd propose that if the above changes are made, buffs like Embolden & Jinx as well as Enhance have their power halved - they should still heal the same, roughly, but the damage bonus or damage resist % should be halved in order to keep this fair - a 275 DPS weapon with a 100% damage increase from jinx would be absolutely HORRIFIC on headshots. Not to mention bodyshots.
    Dragonkindred and Sily like this.
  5. @ProteusVM
    Twin has best DPS but it takes ages to down someone at midrange or nurgle at close. So nothing horryfying. You are okay to oneshit with stalker or cqc bolter in close against eldar 230-270 ehp. So why exception? Finally some cannon not glass?
    or look at rodeo with ork stats... and eldar forced to oppose this

    about skills - they strong int heory, on practise linked spells like jinx easily avoidable and need for warlock to stay, better use enhance, which even weaker than skull tho

    anyway i agree - DA need buff to be on par with other tactical without crutches - add damage or glass whatever
    Dragonkindred, Sily and ProteusVM like this.
  6. Proteus Lychoro ProteusVM Forum Beta Tester

    Which is why the ASC should be given more options to be viable at mid range - it's a fine weapon at close range already if you can land headshots but sucks on bodyshots.
    Give it some utility at mid range and you'll create a much more rounded weapon for the Eldar and the TLASC is powerful at close range which is its intended purpose and has like 700 DPS on headshot too.

    Stalker bolter is a two shot and even then only on headshots vs Eldar. The exception to balancing this faction is because the Eldar can receive buffs that significantly improve them, to a far greater level than marines or orks can, we'd have to drop said buffs to LSM/CSM/ORK levels if they also want the same stats because otherwise, despite their low durability, they'll increase the functional damage of their weapons and then buff that further with a 100% jinx enhancement to turn something that deals 700 DPS into 1400 DPS on headshots. I don't think I need to explain how ridiculous that is.

    Gotta remember, bE designed the Eldar to rely on teamwork and using multiple classes to do what other factions can do with 1 - 2, might not be the best idea for perfect balance but it makes Eldar feel unique surely. As such, the best option you really have - unless bE is willing to fully rebalance the Eldar in order to make them more viable individually - is to suggest ways to make them more 'rounded' on each class, to give them those tools they need to better compete.

    So as said, enhanced damage drop offs for the ASC to make it more viable at mid range, perhaps a fix to the Avenger's Duty to make it viable and competitive. I doubt it, but it could be a nice way to give the avenger a solid mid-range tool in the form of a burstfire shuriken catapult with more damage per shot, to really boost up that alpha damage at mid range.

    Fighting Orks as Eldar is just insane though - gotta love that 40% headshot resistance crutch.

    I mean, in my opinion, the ideal solution would be to just flat out nerf the warlock buffs or to remove the ones that are too powerful like Jinx or Embolden, focus more on direct healing rather than damage boosts and then you can give the Dire Avenger weapons that can tear shit up without running the risk of having someone add a 100% damage boost ontop of it.

    I doubt that'll ever happen though.
    Dragonkindred likes this.
  7. about spells - noone in past had problems with jinx, really even now it rarely used, i guess it says something about combat efficienty

    i prefer to get rid of enhance durability buff to get more ehp base for eldar
    Dragonkindred and ProteusVM like this.
  8. Mauf DrMauf Subordinate

    Hey there, could I get your opinion on the current state of the tempest launcher?
    I've recently started focussing on that thing, using it almost all the time to learn how to apply it and where it shines... And lawdy, that thing is brutal. I find it a bit scary that Eldar have a one man weapon that can basically stop a guild group push in its tracks, depending on the environment. Two of these can be extremely efficient roomsweepers without needing to stop the constant stream of blue balls.

    On the other hand, nerfing the Tempest Launcher right now would pretty much floor the Eldar's ability to deal with any sort of organized group opposing them. It more or less hardcounters ADAD and creates situations where Eldar actually get the opportunity to setup flanking moves (which they should, teamwork and such). On the other hand, it is quite susceptible to melees that are mentally capable of planning a sneaky approach to reach the TL. Once a melee reaches you, it's either die or blow yourself up with them (which I find a bit stupid but that's how that thing currently behaves. Shield Bros have a good chance though should they manage to reach the TL in the first place).

    I understand the cries of OP about it but at the same time, I don't think Eldar can counter organized groups without it. How would one balance that thing without again pulling the carpet floor right out under the Eldar's feet? I like the fact that even if I don't outright murder the opponents, I force them to stop their advance and give my teammates a chance to setup crossfire on them. How could one retain this ability while reducing the efficiency of the weapon as a whole?
    Dragonkindred likes this.
  9. Proteus Lychoro ProteusVM Forum Beta Tester

    Honestly? I think the weapon is fine. There's a lot of players in this game who will start crying and raging over anything that another faction can do that they cannot, even if said advantage is just a spin off of what the faction already has (plasma cannon) just in a different way. This is just the nature of asymmetric balance, in the same way that Eldar get the hunter's mark for high damage at mid range, LSM get the stalker for high damage at all ranges but a slower firing speed/less DPS. CSM & orks get the auto-cannon & ace dakka respectively for similar functionality with less mobility.

    My only issues with the weapon are the huge amounts of screenshake and particle spam it causes, if the weapon simply functioned as it does now just minus the screenshake on impact near enemies and less particle fx/less framerate destruction, it'd be absolutely fine from a balance standpoint. It would still be strong vs vets and anyone standing still due to 3 hits/1 burst kill potential at closer ranges, but returning accurate fire would now be possible as your aim would not be thrown all over by nearby impacts and your frame-rate should be less affected by the detonations.

    Speaking of nerfing the tempest launcher... that's already been done on UAT :(. I think it was an over nerf though - now it is 2 shots before overheat and the charge-up time is painful. Really, just remove the screenshake and lower the blinding particle FX and it'll be counterable head-on by good players. It'll still be great for sweeping rooms, it just won't protect you from being shot in retaliation anymore.

    In regards to keeping the weapon as a tool to 'stop their advance', I'm not sure. The reason why it stops people in their tracks is because you can drop as much as 30 FPS when being direct hit by the tempest and the impact nearby will shake your screen which can really throw off your aim.

    Remove those and it'll be a balanced area denial tool, one you have to keep up the fire with in order to dissuade anyone from rushing through - it'll still be extremely powerful against groups of charging enemies or single enemies standing still, but it will no longer prevent them from firing back or mess with their aim from the detonation screenshake.
    Dragonkindred, Sily and DrMauf like this.
  10. Mauf DrMauf Subordinate

    Thanks. Yes, I would prefer to have the screenshake and fx toned. That they instead break it with hamfisted changes again... well, we're used to that by now. Maybe I'll then swap to the Storm&Fury and instead of going for the psychological effect of splashes everywhere, just aim and thump them with one killer projectile instead.

    About the track stopping: I think it's also more about a psychological effect. People seeing those blue spots and entertaining the thought of having that thing trained on you is probably the primary factor behind making people stop and take cover. A flanked TL really isn't unsurmountable, it's only really devastating if all move through one choke point in a nice one-by-one fashion. So basically, it also punishes bad teamplay.

    P.S.: on a second thought, I really wish the splashy behaviour would actually become a part of the normal reaper launcher auto fire mode (damage adjusted properly) and the TL was moved to a proper dedicate hand-artillery piece akin to the Kannon.
    Dragonkindred, Sily and ProteusVM like this.

Share This Page