Discussion in 'Eldar' started by The-Forge-Dragon, Jun 28, 2017.
melta bombs in general do that
As a Traitor running Mark of Slaanesh, melta bomb, and Melta-gun, I can kill Wave Serpents as fast as a Fire Dragon can kill a Rhino. Fast, much more durable, and can cap points.
When Fire Dragons are given the ability to cap points, and a significant survivability increase, then they'll actually be balanced. As it is, they're just free kills.
You kinda can, with all the other AV, ESPECIALLY Orks, you get a window to stop them from killing the transport. The bomb itself wont cut it, they need to use their weapon to finish it.
With Dragons its as simple as hitting G twice, not too quickly. Once that is done, your survival is optional.
And trying to reach that parity is ok, but letting Marines/Orks drop a bomb to kill a wave serpent while making the Fire Dragon than use his fusion gun to burn 1500 hp off a Rhino isn't parity.
Wave Serpent = 4,800 HP
Rhino/Trukk = 8,000 HP
Meltabomb = 4,000 DMG
So like I said, your idea of having meltabombs do 6500 dmg is bad because the wave serpent goes down in 1 hit and the rhino is left with 1500 hp.
Or even taking away the bundle and putting the Eldar Meltabomb at 6500 would have the Wave Serpents left at 800 hp (4800hp-4000dmg) while the Rhino would be left at 1500hp (8000hp-6500dmg)
If you want to remove the bundle a single Eldar Meltabomb would need to deal 7,200 DMG as it would leave both types of vehicles at 800 HP.
But if that's the goal.. and now both close ranged AV options are about on par, why should we leave Eldar long ranged AV at such a big dis-advantage?
Rhinos have another 3,200 HP for reaper launchers to chew through and they have no frontal weak spots like Eldar grav tanks all suffer from... hmmmmmmmm..
The HP difference is negligible IMO, since a single Melta/Fusion burst deals around 2k damage.
The solution to the problem of the "double-melta problem" is pretty simple.
Remove it from the non-vet fire dragons, and make it a vet-only item. So it'll stop the whole;
jump out of vehicle
place two melta bombs
Also if it's a vet-item, that'll justify it's potency as well as give more reason to actually play vet/revered fire dragons at all.. currently you essentially never see them used.
Making something "vet only" is a good solution for a lot of items to not have to nerf them, and instead make them super potent. I'd be in favor of the power fists and power klaws being vet-only as well, and then proceeding to make them much more devastating (as you're locked into that when you spawn in with the vet, or pick the vet loadout when you in the loadout-swapping pre-match).
There needs to be more purpose to vets than just better survival-stats, and making fire dragon vets specifically super potent at specifically AV over the non-vet ones would make more folks actually use them if they indeed intend to "instagib" vehicles.
So what does the Fire Dragon get in return apart from being a much inferior MoS traitor with no customization options after this said change?
The entire faction seems to balanced on the Fire Dragon being better than over factions copies at AV because only that class in the faction can really do AV hence no krak grenades, bombs on other classes or a decent AV heavy weapon that doesn't have several downsides that dumpsters it's AV capabilities into uselessness
People are quick to offer a nerf but few tend to think of the effect of the nerf faction wide and then offer a buff to balance it out
The chance to equip the most potent fusion weapon accessible to non-heavy infantry, oh no what a punishment.
The entire faction seems balanced on the fire dragon being better than other factions alternatives of AV classes, because it's "the only class that can do AV"? Are you just ignoring the dark reaper's choices? The faction doesn't have any other strengths like the most imbalanced super potent mobility class with weaponry capable of "sniping" from long range with nades that stop vehicles in their tracks when hit, that has never gotten a nerf (aka the swooping hawk)? Ignoring that all the other classes have access to krak-equivalent plasma nades (and bundles of them, just like other factions)? Ignoring that the reaper launcher's starshot missile is a user-controlled projectile that does lascannon damage and splash damage?
You're clearly only replying from an extremely eldar-favoring biased point of view, you lack the broader scope of how incredibly imbalanced it is, especially since literally every eldar class can bring AV of varying potency, since (if you look away from the dark reaper and swoop as they already have strong AV items already) every class can bring a AV-secondary (fusion pistol) in addition to the plasma grenade. You complain in such a biased manner, but even if Eldar didn't have the Fire Dragon to begin with, they'd still overall have more AV options than Orks do.
If Eldar players decide to NOT bring the AV options they have available, it's their fault for not utilizing what's available. Don't act like there's anything underpowered with Eldar, because there's not, not by a longshot. Sure, DPS the Orks have the lead, but Eldar are right behind them on that, and the rest is elements in the equation of "you get some you lose some" of potency vs survival.
Should we let Chaos and Orks GA only have starting weapons because they get aliment weapons which are the most potent of their kind? the Scorpion sure does and he can't fly or use a shield either, is vulkan multi melta ok to you as well? it is a powerful box locked rng needed hundreads of hours grinding tier weapon.
Dark Reaper has a lascannon with 1 second longer charge, travel time and longer ttk as a lascannon vs serpent is faster than a reaper launcher vs a trukk/rhino even though it has said longer charge and evasion chance as the shot can easily be evaded, a second shot to a manned vehicle will never land when you factor in charge, cooldown and travel time
Should we nerf the Ork shoota boy because of Ace dakka or JPA because of GA storm shields? Chaos because of MoN spam? should we nerf tactical because of Apothecary? that's how random you sound
Also hawk got nerfed, you sound pretty biased all mighty overlord who is obviously better than me, several were to grenades and the white devil you call haywire such as damage nerfs and throwing nerfs also you think it's fine to nerf my main because another mans main is better?
Also Fists and Grav guns also disable vehicles in some form, both can kill a tank in the same loadout too,
Space marine can take a grav pistols and Orks pokket rokkits, they suck at AV but so does the fusion pistol, they have it, can I blame you for not taking a grav pistol or pokkit rokkit? because I use a fusion pistols in all possible loadouts
I also have triple the game time on chaos because they are more fun, nice generalization my joint favorite faction is also Imperial Fists if that means anything to your aggressive generalizations
BTW check out the plasma grenade sometime, it's a sticky frag not a krak hence cheaper cost and probably not even half the damage
But you just attacked an entire core class of an entire faction and me because they used what they had
As an AV main on all factions(mostly chaos) I think your points are comedic, but your scales seems rather heavy on the one side concerning this faction
Than why does everyone complain so hard when they have to give a love tap from their melta to kill a Wave Serpent?
Fire Dragons can evidently insta gib a rhino/trukk but what's the difference in timers between tossing that second bomb or getting off that melta burn? like under a quarter second?
Also AGAIN I want to point out that the Fire Dragon is a specialist close ranged Anti-vehicle troop that cannot capture. and your suggestion is to make him inferior to a tactical marine