- Its a matter of preferences: I don't like when people overpromise, even if they do it with good intentions. Unless all goes well (extremely rare in complex works) people will get disappointed at best (not all can be done, more things are guaranteed to change) and at worst you doom the project to total failure. (If the game is not fun, you have nothing to work upon)
That is why I prefer Nathans approach: first core systems ant then design outwards. That can fail too, but you will have a core game that can be polished while the cash flows.

- In 3 months they did a ton, as an eldar player I didn't had some playable classes, weapons, accessorys, tanks etc... Orks were the same. Thats 2 whoile factions without core things. Then there were less maps and ofc things for LSM and CSM too. And lets not mentions bugs, other balance problems, visual palceholders, UIs etc... . I know the game still needs a lot of work but lets be realistic: almost nobody thought that they could pull a real full good release in that amount of time. Its almost impossible taking into account the situation they were in.

- I totally agree with you in that there are valid reasons to complain, that Nathan may not have written the best explanations (I felt him a little angry?) or that not changing the infograph with good time was a huge mistake. But he is limited on what he can say or do about past mistakes. (even while some of them weren't his fault) He needs to make the game work and sell: he cant say "don't buy the game, its unfinished", he needs to say "I know the game has problems, but we will fix them", specially if he thinks/knows they can do it. The consumer has the option to trust or not. In that sense, the mixed rating is good, as it will make people investigate before buying.

Yep how dare they have a weekend after months of working without one.

Get over yourself, this is just another thread whining about something that you can't change.

'Tears for the Tears god, Salt for the Salt god!'

Which is probably why it didn't work and he was axed.

Evidence? Is there anything to prove they had a "much higher chance" compared to now? Don't you think they are in this mess because of a dreamer who wasted time AND money on a dream? Dreamers don't get things done cupcake, they dream. IMO this would've gone the way of Dark Millennium aka; you get nothing.

If/when they get the RTS stuff in are you going to do another thread exactly like this one stating that "they should've got the RTS stuff in earlier? We know this. Tears don't help.

Yet another person who prefers someone who delivered them NOTHING to someone who delivered them a product. Unbelievable.

What? The game could have (and by the looks of things, was very likely to) failed. You'd rather have nothing but a bunch of dreams and promises than an actual product? The changes were necessary because the tech wasn't (and still isn't) available. This is where Miguel has seemingly wasted a ton of budget and where everyone's favourite scapegoat (Nathan if you haven't been following along) came in and made all these sweeping changes. So he could deliver SOMETHING rather than NOTHING.

So you agree with this consensus? That money was wasted by Miguel? That it should be him that you are hating on, if anyone? I'd also emphasise that it's not just the Pikko server tech that wasted money. Concept art, writers, producers, negotiators, sound designers etc, all these different cogs in the wheel that was the previous dev team cost money. Money that was squandered.

We've had 4 patches (including hotfixes) since I brought the game which was when Orks were put in like 2 months ago. They've been saying that the launch 'was just a push of a button' for a ages, yes we are all disappointed with the current state of the game. The statement you have attacked in your OP is trying to remedy this.

The infograph was changed before release though. Way before release, when Nathan scribbled all over it and put it all over the steam community and store page. A lot of the angry players (or reviewers at least) are trolls. It is obvious; 15 - 20 minutes playtime does not a competent or fair review make. Not playing for over 6 months does not suggest that you are up to date with the current state of the game. There are tons, TONS of negative reviews that meet one of not both of these damning criteria.

It has lots of customisation options, much better graphics and better PvE than any other patch I've seen. We were also told this, by the devs, they have said that the patch before launch was the final and launch build patch so this really shouldn't be a surprise.

Somehow, I don't think that was the intention. Nor is it the way I read his post.

You are right of course, but we know a few things;

1. Money wasted by Miguel.
2. Nathan was brought in to salvage what he could of the game.
3. Bamco forced release on their terms.
4. Continued development will be necessary for a console release.
5. Much better optimisation will be required for a console release.

Now these threads keep popping up, these various threads that offer nothing in terms of positive critique and that exist solely to moan about an aspect of the game's development or release. I highlight this because the posts aren't even complaining about an aspect of the game (the awful optimisation for example). These posts have now degenerated into negativity towards a statement made on steam.

There is nothing you can do about these statements made by Nathan or anyone else. If you hate them *so much* then just don't read them. If you are waiting for an apology, or a pat on the back or a signed autograph from the man himself then stop, because you are wasting your time. If you hate the live streams then don't watch them. If you are expecting an apology on the live stream and that's the main reason you want to watch then don't waste your time (although from my experience they have apologised various times on the live stream for different things and it was wasted since it was totally ignored by the community).

If you are so offended by the stuff that comes out of Nathan's and the rest of the team at bE mouths then ignore it.

Well let me say it was nice to hear a response. Thank you for it.

It wasn't a choice between release and a no more funds alpha.
It was a choice between release, no more funds alpha, closed beta, or open beta.

Closed Beta = Cash for development.
Game can still be quite buggy in closed beta and most people will accept it.

Open Beta = Less cash for development from your microtransactions.
Game can still have bugs in open beta, but you've probably too many for it to work out well.

Release however was the worst choice of the 4. Yet now we are here. I'll follow the game and support where I can, but yes it was a misstep.

If the picture in the blog post is their entire team then they have a team of 40 something people. Support staff such as administrative personnels get like 30-40k a year, programs usually go from 60k to 80k. They need literally millions to operate a year (that is excluding office leasing, utilities, insurances, etc etc). This game currently at peak time only has 1500 people, dropped from 3k at release. It's not possible to fund such a large team through micro transactions from a player population so small and fast dropping even lower. Remember, the people that actually buys micro transactions are the very small minority. That's why free to play games requires such a large player population to make them profitable. Few years ago, in Bandai's financial release, they've stated they need to sell at least half a million copy on console to be profitable. Since this game doesn't have to pay console fees, they probably need to sell a bit less but still much higher than current sell number below.

According to data provided here: steamspy.com/app/375230

This game sold less than 100k copies, around 80k (much of that would be early access owners so they are not getting new money in). Majority of that profit will not go back into developers but will be given to their publishers. Remember, the devs has also give up portion of the profit to Game Worshop for licensing fee. The financial reality is that this game's future is pretty GG. The developers also have a contractual duty to port it to consoles due to publishers wants to milk a bit more return. They are definitely focusing on that part of their contract first before doing any meaningful development back on the PC platform. So in their blog they say they are going to patch this week, patch next week, then more content coming out. The patches at most are going to be small graphical bug fixes in maps with some tweaks on current in game numbers (reduce weapon damage, reduce or buff HP that sort of things that can be easily changed with a flick of a few numbers). Future contents are probably some that half done currently but shelfed at release, so the few features that they did demo on during alpha but not in release are going to be the "future contents" and the most likely scenario is going to be a few more maps/game modes and few vehicles, perhaps individual transports such as bikes (they must've already made the graphical models).

Now knowing, Bandai's probably losing money as of now and thus won't invest more into this IP, and developer are barely recuperating costs thus having little to invest into the future, the developers, if want to keep sustain the game and even release new contents, have to literally move into a garage, cut their salaries, fired the support staff, and just work on the game as if it is a charity project. Don't see that happening, if they have that kind of devotion they would've done it long ago.

Bandai also has a shit history of marketing in none asian markets. They released a very good Warhammer Fantasy game few years back, Warhammer Mark of Chaos (almost no bugs very good game mechanics very good graphics very good single player campaign very true to Warhammer Fantasy) but almost no one has heard of it because they did jack crap for marketing. They are continue repeating that mistake on Eternal Crusade. Currently, all the publicity Eternal Crusade's getting is how shitty it is. Bandai picking up this project is probably one of the worst thing that could've happened outside the developer's trying to swallow a giant elephant whole.

All i know is i picked the game up a few days and it's a mixed bag. On one hand it's very enjoyable and i am surprised how good the maps look. On the other i am sick to crap of being 1 shot killed by the enemy. I feel more like Imperial Guard than Space Marine.

>A lot of the angry players (or reviewers at least) are trolls.
lol sure

>It is obvious; 15 - 20 minutes playtime does not a competent or fair review make.
I was skeptical so I took a look at the store page just for fun and found that the lowest number of hours played on all recent reviews was an hour. You're lying.

>Not playing for over 6 months does not suggest that you are up to date with the current state of the game.
You don't need 6 months of constant attentive background knowledge to see what the /current/ state of the game is.

But from what I gather people aren't allowed to have opinions you don't agree with unless they meet your completely arbitrary and irrational standards so w/e if u dont like teh game ur a troll lol tears salt salt tears

Finally, Nathan is like Miguel, lie, nothing is clear.
How many times, he said that the game was fully funded ? ...
And they used the money of the Founders just to develop the game and not to have more things as planned... (20% of the project with the Founders cash). It was not a kickstarter.
When you see the result, it no longer must wait for anything.
For cons, I want to get back some hundreds of euros that I invested in this project (not 100%). when I see the result...

I would disagree, when I first started with the early access (never bothered with the founders server) we had a game that was a chore to stay in and I would play 1 or 2 games maybe and then go and do something else

Then once the steam early access had reached a certain level (patch 21 maybe) we had a game that was actually fun to play, we've had refinement by other patches since but essentially we now have a game that for the most part is fun to play - the complaining on the forum is that XYZ is unbalanced or a particular group shouldn't be allowed to play but we are not screaming that the game itself is basically unfun

Other than space marine which is now ye olde and has no player base left there isn't another WH40k game of this theme about so releasing it so people have something to play as opposed to nothing to play seems a good idea to me

We can argue about whether the whole early access, access to alpha's/beta's is ruining game development as a whole but that isn't a EC exclusive issue

Yeah its subjective.
My problem with Nathan is that he seems to not really care much about the actual scope or bigger picture of the game, his new direction basically moved the game as far away from it as possible and not much is being done in the way of getting back on track.

In 3 months they did a fair bit yeah.
But then in the last month before launch they somehow completely broke the game.
There was a grace period in the last month where the game was actually going pretty smoothly, then a patch later, broken completely.
Also, Eldar were missing classes (the banshee) because the devs still had no idea what they were doing with it. Orks are still unfinished, very unfinished. The placeholders were for sprites, most still dont have any cosmetic changes for the character models. They added 1 map. UI didn't really change much, some things were added, but it remained pretty bad and very console focused.
Of course we didn't expect much, but we were speculating that they'd at least give us something at launch. With the whole "pipelines" thing and "behind the scenes" stuff going on we expected they'd have a launch update or something giving us a lot of stuff they kept a secret, or something at least. But nope, it just launched, which sucked.

Yeah, sadly having a publisher can fuck over developers pretty hard.
While I'll always agree that there is things that just cant be helped... there are things that still could've been done.

Oh my bad, just made a duplicate of this thread.