Yes, I recognize some animal species have females that are larger and way more aggressive then their male counterparts. It's what makes biology interesting, where the rules don't apply equally across all living things. But what I am saying is that in the end all the Orks are going to look a bit samey by sheer necessity to survive in their brutal barbaric society. To the point that all Orks might as well stick with being genderless green skinned mushroom people. Which they all already are. I will put my foot down on Orks growing hair though. They can wear wigs and hair pieces sure, but growing hair is a no. That's what the hair squigs are for.
Thinking over it, Ghazghkull Mag Uruk Thraka is named for a woman, so maybe we've been using the wrong pronoun this entire time. Easy retcon of Imperial misinformation. Imagine the headlines-The Beast of Armageddon Seen in High Heels! Prophet of the Waaagh is a Prophetess?! What's the real relationship with Yarrick! Find out, in the Imperial Sun! The ork fanboyz are going to kill me.
Not seeing a problem with that. Yet. Now I see problems. When a human guy decides to fight, it usually starts with a shoving match. And I have personal experience of that. When a human woman decides to fight, they usually go in with a left hook! Because when women decide to fight, they go for it, go all in, and are quite happy to fight dirty (including hair-pulling and kicks to the nethers). So how do you think the Ork equivalents would fight. Now there is a difference between male musculature and female musculature in Humans. Males tend to geared for sprinting and short bursts of energy, probably because they were the principal hunters during Hunter-Gatherer times. Females tend to be geared for Marathons, what with having to carry that extra weight during pregnancy, and are nimble, fast, and more flexible, probably because they were the gatherers in Hunter-Gatherer society. So how would this equate to Orks? Well like you said, your standard Ork is a big slab of muscle geared for brutal melee and bashing in the skulls of others. But a feminine physiology, geared for Marathon-running, nimbleness and speed of hands, flexible joints, and multitasking? That could produce lithe, lightly armoured fighters, who strike fast with light weapons multiple times in the time it takes a normal Ork to make a swing with his big melee weapon. (And yes I do know they sound like certain pointy-eared snobs!) They may even be good with ranged weapons. Or at least better than standard Orks (Ork snipers anyone?). And yet if they follow the standard Ork pattern, getting bigger, taller, meaner, and more muscular they would have to leave most of that behind. So does that mean they end up looking like the males? Not necessarily, because they can still be highly muscular, and yet retain a feminine physique. Spoiler To counter the feminine physique, you'd need a drastic change in the factors that support it form feminine to masculine. Like how some female athletes use male-based hormones and performance enhancers end up looking very masculine in later life (and usually have extensive medical problems). That's like saying a female bodybuilder or weightlifter couldn't beat-up a reasonably fit version of you or other women! If you had an isolated group of Orks that became or evolved into a feminine form, then they would be feminine throughout the full Ork lifecycle. Even their Warbosses. That may change with extensive interaction with standard Orks, or expansion beyond the factors that made them feminine in the first place.
So, gonna be honest skipped a bunch of pages after the first one. A Female and Male Astartes post gene modification would look the same. Thats just how genetics works. You want to produce a specimen that is bigger, stronger, faster: it is going to phenotypically express as a (human) male. (Plenty of species have a female "physically dominant" phenotype, but that's a different argument). I would like to present into evidence a real life case of CAH or congenital adrenal hyperplasia. An XX individual with a defective copy of an enzyme in the adrenal gland can look like this. If it is currently possible to produce phenotypical XX male mouse with current genetic manipulation, I have a hard time justifying why the "Emprah" with all his genetic altering abilities and however many years of trial and error, wouldn't be able to pretty easily push a female into an Astartes body (which would then look just like all the rest of the Astartes, while having a pair of X chromosomes). __________________________________________________________________________ All that said, I would put forward the same argument for "female" orks (They aren't male to begin with, they are just fungi that identify as male, I don't know why people cant just accept them for who they feel like they are on the inside). The phenotypical human female has a lot of additional adaptations for both growth of a fetus and childbirth. These adaptations would be a net negative on its ability to compete with others that didn't "waste" resources producing breasts, wide hips, and a possibly weaker pelvic bone structure. That said, I think an Ork culture that fought against the Sister's of battle for long enough would start calling itself GALZ, but wouldn't start wearing dresses, because why would you wear a dress on the battle field (Dark Angels being the obvious exception). Edit for dead link. PS. Female physique is not better at marathons. The best women's time for a marathon places her in 2000 something place vs male performances.
Except the one issue being, Orks aren't human. Their physiology is different. Where humans are mostly water, they're mostly fungi. Ork musculature and human musculature vary on that principle alone. Add in the fact that Orks don't have testosterone or estrogen and you can go even deeper as to how biologically different their bodies function and grow compare to ours. So to base how an Ork would grow to how human bodies grow and function is like comparing mushrooms to monkeys. Their similarities are out weighed by their vast differences. Now do Orks have varying body types, yes. But it's mainly based on how much fighting they've done and their preferences in fighting. For example, Flash Gitz tend to have flabbier arm muscles and be pudgier because all they do is shoot with their snazzguns and they don't get any Choppin practice in. A scrawny, skinnier Ork is one that usually hasn't seen a lot of fighting and is dying because of it. Because an Ork doesn't just want to fight, they need to fight. Fighting is pivotal to Ork life like food and water is to human life. Goffs tend to be naturally bigger and bulkier then the other clans because of their high preference to melee combat. Bludd Axes prefer stealth and tend to be smaller and lighter as a result, though even Kommando nobs are still considerably bulky the more fights they've been in and their bodies tend to naturally grow a certain way as they reach nob hood. Now the argument of could their be an Ork intially with a feminine figure and mindset, I'd have to say possibly because it hasn't been established that it's not an impossibility (aside from them being fictional fungus people with no gender because making one body set of miniatures is simpler and cost effective). But will they keep that figure throughout their life? I still can't be sure on that, due to lack of evidence for or against it within the lore on how Ork body growth would occure under such factors. Basing how an Ork would grow to how humans grow would be inaccurate at best to just being incorrect on principle on being two separate species with vastly different physiological and biological factors.
You are talking about females with relatively normal male levels of Hormones. There was a few years ago a Transgender Female to Male, who was pregnant. He had a goatee. If you start with normal female levels, and add male hormones in on top of that you tend to get a mess. Just look at the Cold War-era female Eastern European athletes on performance enhancing drugs. They are androgynous and usually very ill with heart problems and cancer. So why build geneseed to suppress the hosts female hormones to male levels and then add in the Transhuman biochemicals necessary to create an Astartes. It would be simpler to tailor the Biochemicals to female biology. And if you use an Astartes-esque process tailored to female biology you will still get a feminine silhouette. Their buttocks and bust may be reduced to male measurements (even Astartes measurements), but their pelvis, ribcage, and other feminine skeletal aspects would still be feminine. And to get that you would need The Emperor to have started the entire human enhancement projects, like the one that created Thunder Warriors, to have accomodated that possibility from the beginning. Probably female Primarchs (which did not exist) as well. The only other option is another massive project to redesign geneseed to work with the female form. And the Emperor is not, and was not, available for such a project. What with being busy reconquering the galaxy, fighting the Horus Heresy, and then sitting on the Golden Throne for Ten Millennia. Stick an average man and an average woman in a Marathon, and see who wins. And here's a question for both you and @GobMaw_HellSmasha. Just to what extent are Orks Fungi? I know a lot of Ork players talk about thyem being Fungi, but I always thought they were in Symbiosis. That they were entities that were a combination of animal and fungi in Symbiosis. It would explain their spores and ability to spring up from nowhere, and the fact that they bleed and seem to have internal organs. And if they are symbiotic life, then what I have said before can still apply to the animal part of the partnership. As for the phenotypical adaptions, not all are for childbirth but are also for child-rearing. There are reasons why a tribal group of female Orks would actively rear the next generation. Breastfeeding allows a parent (the mother) to pass on immunity factors, like antibodies, plus essential nutrients. Which also explains why ancient human tribes had females that work together in child-rearing, multiple children would have multiple sources of breastmilk. Wide hips would also allow for young to be carried on them. But there is a more pertinent reason for them. If you look at the Standard Ork they have physical characteristics more akin to Great Apes than Humans. Their legs are bent, hips are narrow in comparison to shoulders, arms seem longer than legs, and their heads are bent forward. It is remeniscent of Ambush Predators (like the Sabretooth Cats) over Pursuit Predators (like modern Big Cats). Another such example is Neanderthals and Modern Humans. Neanderthals would hunt in forested areas, whilst modern humans would hunt across plains. So imagine a 'female' ork that is long of leg, stands up straight, a pelvis suited for such, and head erect to see over longer distances than their 'male' counterparts. They would also have a gait suited to travelling at speed over plains and savannah. They'd be really tall Orks as well. I never mentioned Mindset. I was talking about the structures of the brain and related processes. And if Orks have a Skeleton, which I believe they do, how their muscles connect with that skeleton does not really change over their lifetime. Otherwise their bodies would radically change over their lifespan. So if their skeleton has a femine form and characteristics, then even if they grow to twenty feet tall they will still retain a general feminine form.
Note: This image belongs to the INTERNET (and has been previously posted on this forum under 40k memes)
