I'm just wondering what peoples ideas were for any variation on the support elements for each faction. Currently CSM and Eldar have sorcerers and Warlocks, LSM and Orks have Apothecary and Painboy. It seems like there are a lot more varied ways for the support class of CSM and Eldar to help their brothers with various healing, offensive and AOE spells compared to the Apothecary who can only heal. I'm not trying to get a balance argument or an OP argument started and I want to keep this separate from other complaints like "Yeah but LSM have shieldbro" or "MoN can cap" I'm hoping to get some good ideas for how the asymmetric balance would work because at the moment an LSM equivalent librarian will be an elite/hero class and I'm not sure what the Ork weirdboy will be. The devs might have some stuff in the pipeline but I feel like we've heard or talked a lot about things like the chaos marks whereas we've heard almost nothing other than a vague hint towards purity seals for the loyalists. So what can we give the various support classes to even things out, or what else can we give to a side to make up for the imbalance?
Good stuff, do you know if they're planning to do anything about the freeze when he heals or resurrects you? I don't mean go instantly to full speed, just be able to continue moving as you get to your feet. It's too easy to be killed as you're being revived at the moment.
I have some Ideas for the Apothecary, but i agree, the Apo seems less versatile then the spellcasting supporters o Combat Stimpacks (More movement speed / attack speed) o Resistance Buffing Vials (Make a MoN out of a tactical armor wise?) o Heal over Time Vial (The current vial is a mix between possible vials / would make the duration longer and/or more potent) o Instaheal Vial (What we have now) o Anti-Supression Vials o Sense-enhancing Vials (Detect stealth better) Also, if we look at Bloodangels and the sanguiniary Priest, maybe give him the option to equip a jetpack? just wild ideas thrown in
Well take into consideration, while Apoth can only heal (and will have minor support buffs as Grig pointed out), he has the full offensive potential a Tactical has (minus capping) or due to the quick healing and HoT is a very capable melee fighter. I think that's the kind of asymetry they're aiming for.
I think this could be cool. Lots of Ideas coming from Deathwatch and Dawn of War. Apothecary I think Combat Stims could be toughness + and supp resist. Also what of Purification Vials from DoW2; wargear Area denial poison grenades? Also a Deathwatch ability was adding poison to teammates weapons for their first magazine. Could be cool as a close ranged AoE buff not connected to the mags but just a short timer. I think stealth detection for the apothecary can be linked to a helmet upgrade (armor upgrade for EC?) the Diagnostor Helmet in Deathwatch gives "Preysense sights" also I think +something on perception skill checks, I can remember the number. Aspiring Sorcerer I think the AS needs a Doom Bolt; weak artillery like ability, to give him a bit more frontline presence. Also I wonder if anyone else has given the idea of AS having a channeling Rift ability for a spawn point, charge up the Warp Rift refills its timer but at a big cost to the energy reserves? General on the stealth detection I would like to see a devastator only upgrade the Signum link or maybe the handscanner /auspex? for general class use. wieldable only with pistol with a very narrow cone of detection?
You serious? I was hoping for this but I didn't Know it would come true. This is a new feeling to me...what is it that I am feeling?
I don't see why the apoth and painboy need offensive capabilities like Chaos or Eldar. That is not how those factions roll. I think is it wrong to have the apoth juice up or poison. That is not what SMs do. Painboyz, yes, because that is was the hurty syringe is, a poison weapon. For the Eldar, without seeing them, I would have no problem having their warlock more powerful because they themselves can be weaker. But the sorcerer is another problem because CSM is close to the SM, but I think this makes the apoth equal to the sorcerer:
Thanks everyone so far, some interesting ideas. I would say that I don't think the apo has the full offensive potential as a tactical as he can only equip a bolter. I'm happy with asymmetric balance but apo can only equip Bolter as a ranged option and only chainsword as melee. Now I know his ability to self heal makes up for that but he can only be ranged or melee, whereas the range on the sorc spells make him both at the same time. I know sorc melee isn't great but I think they will fix that.
Being a veteran apoth player, I think the apoth is fine the way it is, being given poison bolts I think is a nice addition, I don't know if it is really necessary. I think a lot of the asymmetries you might be concerned about could be resolved with the introduction to equipment and other items. Even after the introduction of these pieces of equipment I am still hesitant on adding new perks for the apoth. I think the reason why the Apoth is "seen" or "feels" is because of the equipment he has access too.... Other LSM classes can take Chainswords and Bolters, and the only really unique tool is the Narthecium. If we compare that to the Sorc, who has abilities which no one else can use or take, the apoth doesn't feel unique or different from a regular tactical all that much, or a chainsword/Bolt pistol GA. Remember though the apoth is more of a jack of all trades compared to his counter part who is more close quarters oriented. You come across in this post as blowing off the Bolter a bit. Do not underestimate the bolter apoth and dont underestimate the bolter! The bolter gives a huge tactical advantage over his counter part as it allows him to engage at range of distances. Think of the bolter and its modes of fire as a Apoths spells. The burst fire makes the gun dangerous and long range, while the full auto mode allows the apoth to deal with problems at mid to close range distances. If you compare this range to the Sorc spells, the Apoth outshines here. This is what I think Testiculus was getting at when he meant apoths have a lot of offensive potential, and when you couple it with the insta heal there is also a lot of defensive potential the apoth can have too. Also when you say the Apoth cant do both melee and range at the same time... I would say it can. A bolter apoth get the narthecium as a melee weapon and it can have quite a sting! If I recall the narthecium is still the fastest melee weapon and is the quickest to get heavy attacks out, and for every strike you land, poison damage is transferred and stacks. Enough successful strikes and even a MoN will drop. Now the narthecium is really weak and breaks easily compared to the Force Sword... so they certainly wont win every melee brawl, but you can still come out on top in most match ups. Then again the apoth isn't meant to be a melee oriented support unit like the Sorc, they excel and perform better at a distance.
