Calm down there champ I ain't attacking you or the weapon I have simply never used it and I don't have the stats to hand. I didn't call it OP either - I just said the advantages should be balanced against negatives. Speaking of which isn't the extra 100 to equip because it's considered master crafted? Regardless you haven't addressed my point that every faction should have an equivalent weapon as it's clearly the most used weapon in CSMs arsenal likely because it's their strongest heavy weapon....
Because I'm stupid enough to get caught in the crosshairs, I guess. I never said I wanted the gun nerfed, so please don't lump me in with that group. I appreciate it.
Cost-wise it isn't, though. What you get is a very small DoT that does about 10-20 damage per shot since the nerf. It does slightly higher DPS, but not enough to change the number of shots-to-kill, with the same rate of fire and worse recoil. It's like aiming for the break-point in games like Payday 2: you want your weapon to hit just enough to kill in 2 or 3 shots, but sacrificing anything else to add more damage that doesn't push you over those intervals doesn't change anything. In this case, you give up LP and recoil. The VSB is unique in that it has a 110 penetration compared to the 80 pen that all other bolters have, which does drastically raise its damage.
People cry over both weapons because they don't have one of their own and when they see half a team of Havoks all using either AC or AG they quickly put 2 + 2 together and get 5. I'm not saying the AC or AG is OP, I do think it is stronger than any other heavy weapon on the CSM side of things though, simply because it's all I see you using now. The DOT (regardless of how weak it is) shouldn't be ignored, I have died to it a few times as I'm sure many others have. Can the DOT finish someone off who has taken 2 shots from full HP? As someone who has never shot AG, I notice no difference in accuracy between it and AC, does the recoil really make a difference? Is the 100 LP not a mastercrafted thing? If it's just a flat tax fair enough. I was going to make a thread about this but I figured it would turn into a bashing session and I didn't want that but the CSM meta at the minute seems very heavily AC/AG and RaptorFist biased. To the point where I reckon 15-18 members of a 20 man team in any game are one of those two classes using one of those two weapons.
People get killed by it a lot, therefore it must be OP. I see this logic in lots of games ranging from Overwatch to World of Tanks. It stems from people who are uninformed and know only the strengths and not the weaknesses of whatever is allegedly OP. I'm not disgracing legitimate feedback and the AG is an exclusive weapon which makes it sinister. No. This exact thing happened to me in the game where I was accused of being some propaganda spreader. I took two shots from the AG on my tactical which is a level 1 with bare basic stuff before I rolled into cover. The DoT did not finish me off. I was on full HP before I took any shots. I'm sorry I don't have any evidence but it stuck out to me because a lot of people bring up the DoT. The DoT may finish off someone who's HP makes up a shot and a tiny bit from the AG. The DoT is utterly negligible. I agree that it shouldn't be ignored because it can make a difference (all be it rarely), but as someone who uses it, and as someone who faces it on my Ork and SM, the DoT as an issue is a horribly overblown.
+They don't have their own. People always want what they don't have, it's human nature. In a shooting game if they're killed by a weapon they don't have and can't get access to that just increases the lust ten fold. That lust turns nasty and devolves into petty squabbling and ravings about it being too strong, OP etc. Although, as I have said before in this thread, I believe it to be the defacto strongest CSM heavy weapon as of now. So it is certainly one of the stronger heavier weapons in the game. Similarly I don't think many players disassociate the AC or AG, they would take either. Finally; there is absolutely no reason, lore-wise, that SM don't have the AC also. Fair enough, the DOT is weak. It sounds like the AC is better than AG to be honest just by virtue of it not completely giving away your position and by it being cheaper. As I said I think marine players would take the AC in a heart beat and both weapons are very strong. Anyone know why the Ace Dakka is pound for pound worse than the AC?
Had a few LSM games last night. Flew into absolute RAGE and shot a whole squad of teammates with heavy bolter. LSM lately are being absolutely ridiculous. Yes AC/AG are annoying. They could be real tricky to counter when you have them braced up everywhere. But LSM simply lacks tactics and a sense of learning, blaming EVERYTHING on gears. On fortress maps they don't deplete tickets and destroy both gates, adding all tickets to B. On tug-of-wars they don't defend virgin points and charge into enemy spawns to recap. When you order tactics they ignore you. When you rage they call you a kid and taking a game too seriously. Then they go on saying LSM should get AC's also. How are LSM players ever going to get better by acting like useless whiny pricks? I can't take on 3 organized and skilled CSMs defending a virgin point alone. That's not how EC works. My guild party can't interrupt 2 points being captured at the same time by a whole team of cooperative CSMs. That's not how EC works. If LSM players aren't willing to learn to play, I'll just have to shoot them myself to save a good waste of 15 minutes.
And everything you said, I have seen happen with CSM, Eldar, and Ork. Regularly. I don't get where you guys find this as being a uniquely LSM issue. But, you have fulfilled your obligatory LSM bashing post. Remember, these posts must be made daily, in every thread. It is in the forum rules.
That happens when you nerf the PC into the ground and make MM marginal at best and put you against Grav class weapons and JPA powersword/fist all the time. You take the most effective response to the weapons used against you. And the AC is the most front loaded damage you can get to stop a JPA charge or ruin some asshats with grav weapons. Using any other class of heavy weapon on CSM is generally a bad idea unless you are accustomed to the weapon and love it so (Like me and the MM)
