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Eldar Point Capturing - Is Dire Avenger enough?

Discussion in 'Eldar' started by Brujah, May 16, 2016.

  1. Zaeryn Zaeryn Master

    It's not supposed to be noticable because the weapons should have relatively balanced performance, meaning unlike Ork weapons their TTKs should be relatively the same.
    Ork TTKs. Orks should have 'Eavy Armor by default.
    Ork Move Speeds Base / WAAAGH! 1 / W!2
    Forward: 6-ms / 7-ms / 8-ms
    Strafe: 4.5-ms / 5.25-ms / 6-ms
    Back-Pedal: 3.5-ms / 4.1-ms / 4.7-ms
    Sprint: 12-ms / 14-ms / 16-ms

    SM Move Speeds
    Forward: 6-ms
    Strafe: 5-ms
    Back-Pedal: 4-ms
    Sprint: 12-ms

    Eldar Move Speeds Base / Fleet of Foot
    Forward: 7.5-ms / 9-ms
    Strafe: 6-ms / 7.2-ms
    Back-Pedal: 4-ms / 4.8-ms
    Sprint: 15-ms / 18-ms


    Bolter vs Ork Boy: 1.5-sec, 7 Bolts, 0.25-sec Fire Rate, 30 Bolt Mag
    Accuracy: 3.4-cm spread at 24-meters
    Major Damage Drops: 48 and 96-meters

    Shoota TTK vs SM: 1.26-sec, 8 Rounds, 0.18-sec FR, 60 Round Mag
    Accuracy: 4.5-cm spread at 18-meters(gave Orks +1 Ballistic Skill for balance purposes)
    Major DDs: 27 and 54-meters

    The Ork Shoota has a more noticable TTK advantage due to its lower accuracy, range and greater recoil reducing its long and medium range effectiveness to varying degrees.


    SM Combat Knife TTK vs Ork Boy: 2.1-sec, 7 Basic Attacks, 0.3-sec Attack Speed
    Choppa TTK vs SM: 2.4 / 2 / 1.6-sec, 8 BAs, 0.3 / 0.25 / 0.2-sec AS

    Off base stats, the SM has a minor mobility advantage and slight TTK advantage. As the Ork's WAAAGH! levels build, the advantage leans further in their favor.

    Ork players should have a WAAAGH! Active Ability with a moderate cooldown(I.E. 15 to 20-sec) that temporarily(I.E. 3 to 5-sec) buffs the using Ork and others nearby(I.E. within 3 to 5-meters) with increased Move/Attack Speed(+16.7%) and Reduced Ammo Consumption(-25%).
    Basic Orks should passively provide 25% of the Active buff to nearby Orks and the passive could stack to a double/Max buff that would have twice the boni of the Active and could have additional benefits such as HP regeneration.


    D.A. S.Catapult TTK vs Ork Boy: 1.026-sec, 20 Shuriken, 0.054-sec FR, 100 Shuriken Core
    Accuracy: 3.4-cm spread at 18-meters
    Major DDs: 36 and 72-meters

    Shoota TTK vs Avenger: 0.9-sec, 6 Rounds, 0.18-sec FR
    Accuracy: 4.5-cm spread at 18-meters
    Major DDs: 27 and 54-meters

    Orks have a slight TTK advantage to make up for their weapon's other stats leaving them at a disadvantage in long and medium range combat but are generally at a disadvantage in ranged combat.


    D.A. Combat Knife TTK vs Ork Boy: 2-sec, 10 BAs, 0.2-sec AS
    Choppa TTK vs Avenger: 1.8 / 1.5 / 1.2-sec, 6 BAs, 0.3 / 0.25 / 0.2-sec AS

    The Avenger's greater move/attack speeds should either match them with the Ork or give them a minor advantage, while the Ork's WAAAGH! buffs can noticably put the advantage in their favor, generally giving them the advantage in melee combat.

    The 11 hits is if you are doing nothing but spamming Basic Attack against a full Armor/HP enemy that is only taking damage from your BA. If they were damaged before hand(I.E. by your pistol) it can take noticably less melee attacks. Charge Attacks also should deal more damage and need less hits to Down an enemy, while attacks from behind should also deal more damage and thus reduce the hit requirement.
    Combat Knife(S3, AP-) Base DMG is 10.2. Deals 10% less DMG to Toughness 4 target(SM/Ork). Damage rounded to nearest 1/10th.
    SM Armor is 66.8, HP is 40.
    Back-Stab Modifier: +125% DMG
    Charge Attack Modifiers: -50% Attack Speed, +125% Stamina Drain, +150% DMG

    D.A. Combat Knife TTK vs SM
    Basic Attacks(Front): 2.2-sec, 11 Attacks, 0.2-sec Attack Speed
    BAs(Back): 1-sec, 5 Attacks
    Charge As(Front): 2-sec, 5 Attacks, 0.4-sec Attack Speed, Minor Stun(0.05 to 0.1-sec)
    CAs(Back): 0.8-sec, 2 Attacks

    Yes, hopefully bE will change their minds.
    With Hawks, Reapers, Dragons and Avengers you would have 4 dedicated range classes.
    With Warlocks, Scorpions and Banshees you have 3, so allowing melee options for Avengers would make it 4.
    Sily likes this.
  2. Gythraul Crepidus Arkhona Vanguard

    I hope there will be enough DA's running around to effectively take points on the maps. It could be a real easy tactic for our enemies to just have to "keep the bright blue and yellow unit off the map " and win. They are nice and easy to spot and not that hard to kill sooooo......
    Zaeryn, Madgenius4 and Dragonkindred like this.
  3. RageScreama RageScreama Well-Known Member

    Actually with 3 warlocks backing them they are a huge pain to kill without instant kill weapons like plasma.
  4. Noromiz Noromiz Nickname Change

    Or a Melta Weapon :D
    But yes, the Warlock Conclave / Seer Council tactic is real.

    Just don't tell the other factions that and we should be alright.
    Bugz likes this.
  5. DJPenguin DJPenguin Cardinal

    So far I'm not seeing a dire shortage of cappers in my games. Granted my war parties will always have at least 1 but even then and with the occasional fire dragon spam when something needs to be capped there's usually no "hold the point for 3 minutes until a DA comes" moments.

    Once the DA gets more alluring toys and is fleshed out i don't see us having just 1 cap class being a prob. Despite the class being on the weak side atm it's still quite fun to play.
  6. Sigvald Darthy Curator

    Too late, the Lash is already making a compilation of ways to beat the Eldar with targeting their brightly colored capping units at the top of the list.

    No but seriously though, the Eldar need something with range that can cap. Dire Avengers and possibly fire dragons being the only ones is a severe weakness that makes it hard to retaliate to bombardment, at present we can assume that generally they have no form of long range retaliation.

    Which is a problem, because Eldar should only be really bad at mid-range combat, with good short AND long range capabilities.
    SaffronB likes this.
  7. Noromiz Noromiz Nickname Change

    Our only "killy" troops at long range is the Dark Reaper, and possibly the Swooping Hawk with the Hawk's Talon.
  8. Sigvald Darthy Curator

    Yeah, thats a big part of the problem. The only thing I can think of is some sort of weapon modification for Dire Avengers catapults that makes their shots at least decent at range.
  9. I hope the dire Avenger can mod his shurriken to be more accurate, like a long range modification.

    Even if it is lore accurate that the SC should be a close range weapon i would suggest the exact opposite. Make it much more accurate. May it have lower damage and a higher TTK, but if i can reliably kill people on longer ranges i got an advantage, while not hindering the bolter (who should kill you faster at close range)

    For me Balance > Lore. But thats just how i would do it :)
  10. Noromiz Noromiz Nickname Change

    Brent said something about letting us mod the ASC to be more like a "Stalker Bolter", though probably not as good at long range. Essentially we would be able to push the ASC into other roles.

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