Kiss theory? And not to argue semantics of power, but Rending is actually a whole power level higher than Bladestorm because Rending occurs on rolls to hit, Bladestorm occurs on rolls to wound. Both of which it should be said represent critical hits as the weapons themselves don't reliably deals wounds equal to that of a plasma weapon. On a lucky dice roll however, these weapons can bury the same target in ap 2 wounds. So to say that shurikens should be implemented in a flat rate, reliably dependable in the hands of all users, when these weapons comprise as much as 90%+ of a warhost feels like a misrepresentation. It also seems unfair to the target since not much skill is involved. I feel like a lot of Eldar might be a tad insulted when their only answer is "More Dakka" instead of putting shots exactly where they need to be.
I totally get where you are coming from Demetri. I just see Blade Storm and Rending close enough in game terms to lump them together. then again wtf do I know Keep It Simple Stupid is somthing I have kept close to my heart in anything that involves people in general. And again wtf do I know my thought was adding a small % of every hit to bypass armour would still involve skill as you still need to hit. You still need to get close too, make BS be only at close range? then you may pay for your buff by a pwr fist brain tickle. Impossible to talk balance when we have no clue about how anything plays out.
My main concern for the Eldar had been mentioned through this specifically. I would really like the game to be about skill, but I don't want the Eldar getting lit up without some way of balancing them. The Faction itself is meant to be a hard hitting, kill the enemy, before they kill you. I would agree that Bladestorm should be a storm of blades, but to what extent does it become a storm? Eldar will get massacred if they don't have something that they can do for damage especially if they are modeled after the game with low toughness. There speed in both shoot and movement should be a factor, so if you make the shuriken weapons faster then the bolter/ bolt pistols it will balance everything out. I actually agree with Demetri with the exception of make the shurikens faster so it gets the bladestorm feeling, but also has a higher chance of dropping an enemy. Have it still possess that feeling of teamwork where Eldar are lauching a storm of blades as one.
Correct. As the standard, 1 in 6 hits of a Shuriken weapon are capable of penetrating even Terminator Armour, which in a real-time scenario like EC translates to dealing at least 1/6th penetration vs all Armor types. I would not want a chance-based critical hit system because it replaces skill with chance/luck. They have a chance to penetrate Armor they normally could not, not to deal critical damage. The Dire Avenger Shuriken Catapult should have a 3.4-cm spread at 36-meters vs the Bolter's 3.4-cm spread at 48-meters. The S.Cat's damage should drop to 2/3 after 36-meters and 1/3 after 72-meters, while the Bolter's damage doesn't drop until 48 and 96-meters. Alternatively, 3 damage drops could be used for S.Cat 75% DMG after 36-meters, 50% after 72-meters and 25% after 108-meters, while the Bolter would be 48/96/144-meters. The S.Cat should ultimately be better than the Bolter in close range, about even in medium range and worse at long range. Head shots should deal +125% Base Damage. Specialized sniper-type weapons and actual sniper rifles can have individually increased head shot multipliers. For instance: Bolter Body TTK vs Tactical: 1.75-sec, 8 Bolts, 0.25-sec Fire Rate Bolter Head TTK vs Tactical: 0.75-sec, 4 Bolts, 0.25-sec FR Stalker Bolter Body TTK vs Tactical: 1.925-sec, 8 Bolts, 0.275-sec FR Stalker Bolter Head TTK vs Tactical: 0.55-sec, 3 Bolts, 0.275-sec FR In addition to the base +125 DMG the Stalker deals another +75% for a total +200% DMG on head shots. Bladestorm is a representation the user managing to hit a location the Shuriken could more easily penetrate(I.E. a joint instead of armor plates). It does not make the Shuriken more powerful unless you also raise the weapon's other statistics to make it so, being that weapons are comprised of more than just a single mechanic allowing them to penetrate Armor. What it does do is make Eldar Shuriken weapons unique and different to non-Shuriken weapons. Rending and Bladestorm are the same exact thing, both providing an automatic Wound at AP2 when rolling a 6 To Wound. They represent the user managing to land a shot against a more easily penetrated portion of their Armor(I.E. joint); however, because players in EC actively aim at and target their enemies with their bodies having different hit-boxes instead of a percent-chance to land a critical blow you provide weapons with Bladestorm/Rending with a default amount of Armor Penetration. Saying that Eldar Shuriken weapons should be able to penetrate Armor is like saying we should have WH40K Eldar Shuriken weapons. It is not unfair to the target because it is not like the weapons are going to have massive penetration that allows them to waste every target they come across. In fact, the 1/6th damage of the low damage Shuriken(2.3 Base DMG vs Bolter's 13.6) can actually be mitigated by the use of healing abilities on allies under Shuriken fire. Eldar are rewarded with head shots because those kill targets faster than body shots. Armor Penetration should cause attacks to more easily penetrate Armor and thus waste less of their damage/force on the Armor in return for dealing a percentage of damage to the target wearing the Armor. For example, against a 1 Wound, 3+ Armor Save(66.8 Armor) and 4 Toughness(40 HP) Marine, a Strength 7(23.8 Base DMG) weapon with Armor Penetration 3 would deal 19.8 Armor DMG and 5.2 HP DMG, due to 4 DMG penetrating the Armor(16.7% penetration due to AP matching Armor Save) and that being increased by 30% due to the weapon's Strength being 3 points higher than the target's Toughness. Such a weapon would require 5 hits to Down the Marine and would completely deplete their Armor before their HP. A S7 AP2 weapon would only deal 15.9 Armor DMG but would deal 10.3 HP DMG(33.4% pen due to AP matching and surpassing Armor Save by 1), requiring only 4 hits to Down the Marine and leaving them with 3.2 Armor. That way, you are able to properly use Armor Penetration to penetrate an enemy's Armor and potentially kill them without first destroying their Armor. Bladestorm and Rending are the exact same thing. Automatic AP2 Wound if you roll a 6 To Wound. Your thought on weapons with Bladestorm/Rending dealing a percentage of their damage through Armor is exactly how those mechanics should work. It should still work at longer ranges as weapon damage should drop with range(I.E. Shuriken Catapult MAX DMG from 0 to 36-meters, 2/3 DMG from 36 to 72-meters, 1/3 DMG beyond 72-meters).
Whoa hold on there, we're skimmed half of the rules of Rending and Bladestorm out of their due. Though they are different, they actually do make the weapon more powerful, at least on TT, because they autowound. Both rule types are capable of wounding any toughness automatically at AP2 1/12th of the time (Bladestorm), or 1/6th of the time (Rending) - without help from mainstays like psychic powers. That's miles ahead a Bolter's capacity. That's a big deal, since it means that things on Bikes, MoN, Plague Marines, Orks, Nobs, Warbosses, Terminators, Bloodthirsters, and in the case of Rending, even light Tanks, are going to all take ap2 wounds upon scoring the equivalent of a critical in TT, and unless they have an invuln save or multiple wounds, it means the model instantly dies. A Bolter can wound about half of these things, some of which it can't harm at all. But things like the MoN, are going to find really nasty surprises when they find out that Bladestorm not only doesn't care about your armor, it also doesn't care about how much hp you've stacked either, and will outright kill any single wound no invulnerable save model 12% of the time and that's huge considering how much of the codex is based on Bladestorm. But you're right, nobody wants to see this be a random effect, and a flat 12% pen to armor won't do anything to high health targets that don't even wear armor, so I defer back to the OP as an example of how this could be implemented.
You pointy-earned panzees already get a zogging bonus: it's called "headshots," which you'll automatically be getting more of because your weapons will be longer-ranged and more accurate. I have a feeling you fancy gits will need none of the favors or special treatment you get on the TT in order to kill the rest of us no problem.
Actually, and I can't find the quote atm, but the Eldar have good long and short range weapons. The main weapons that most Eldar use are called Shurikens, and are all short ranged weapons - roughly the equivalent to more accurate Storm Bolters with an accuracy that tapers off quickly at max range.
Depends. Ultra accurate storm bolters with headshot bonuses have already been found to be pretty OP. Shurikens will almost def. Have less dmg per shot to compensate, but really it could go either way. The thing is, headshots with an accurate weapon are extremely easy to do in this game, which is why it may still be a better solution to do something above and beyond scoring hits in a fairly large hitbox. If we're being completely honest, my proposal seems the most fair to outside factions. If criticals are automatic on headshots, or rather, they deal a bunch of bonus damage in rapid succession with an ultra high rate, accurate weapon, the Eldar are going to be consistently really... Really... Really powerful with limited effort or skill as a close target has a much bigger head hitbox than a distant one. I'm ok with that. I doubt my enemies would be.
