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EC/LSM Guide, eHP Calculator and FPS Guide

Discussion in 'General Discussion' started by Oan-Mkoll, Mar 25, 2017.

  1. Mkoll Oan-Mkoll Steam Early Access

    uhh that was not what I wanted to imply I guess. Its always the most cost efficient to get the red armor first since it gives you 140Lps worth of armor and 100 lp for toughness and reduced armor regen delay for free, and it does not collide with other loadout slots and gives more ehp than stacking hp for those 240points (for apo and jpa).

    Even 10 pen wont reduce the B2K vs the standard weapons generally (but the ehp is slightly reduced vs pen ammo). I would always go for the red armor or the highest armor upgrade you can fit, if possible even on the classes with low hp/armor stats.

    on a tactical/ga/devastator the armor is always better even vs armor pen amunition. the rare case where a plasma or melta recks you not counted in.

    and why should a nice medallion protect better than a bulky armor!? think before you talk xD

    Edit: did not crunch the numbers for space elves since I dont play them and have no gear etc to calculate LP effectifness or anything
  2. Belphegor LordSloth Preacher

    First of all let me get this one of my chest: You provide an awesome stream and i really enjoy that you are giving advice to new players.

    That beeing said the above statement is sadly off the mark. Armor is (as long as you hit the thresholds to absorb 1 additional bullet) a very solid and linear investment. Survivability is always worth something - even red armor or builds with 120 toughness. One might argue that at the point where you decide to go for grey armor you might aswell drop any other defensive stats and it would be best to fully commit to another stat.

    On the otherhand different stats like armor regen or stamina are worth their LP aswell (compared to defensive stats) if you can adjust your playstyle accordingly. A skilled and experienced player (like yourself) knowing when to engage and when to disengage, strafing and simply aiming better will get far more value out of more mobility and recovery then someone who is mechanically and experiencewise behind and goes into most fights slugging it out / outlasting his opponent.

    At certain skillcaps and certain loadout points the value of mobility/flexibility items drastically changes, while defensive stats always provide the same benefit to all players. They are more or less the "go to option" for the basic playstyle. I really think you should mention that when suggesting builds. Or maybe i am just envious that i dont have a phobosbolter and i cant bring myself to run an ugly and statswise pointless mastercrafted instead, so i must push those leftover points into armor. ;):D
    DJPenguin likes this.
  3. DJPenguin DJPenguin Cardinal

    I should have elaborated more. Apologies.

    When i say toughness isn't worth it unless you're able to stack it to a certain amount I'm implying that going with an armor & armor regen stacking build is a better payoff in the long run than just getting a meager amount of toughness. Meaning, you'll have a bigger presence in team fights by having less down time if you know when and how to commit. Looking at my Chaos loadouts for example i have a slaanesh tactical loadout. I absolutely hate bringing that thing out on offense as once the armor's gone I'm pretty much benched without proper support aka meatshields. A low amount of toughness will only mean that once the now-lower amount of armor's gone I'm now losing durability that won't regen passively. A higher amount of toughness (if it's available to the class at all) will grant me the ability to stick around just a bit longer.

    But as you say experience (among other things) does play a large factor in what's desirable to a player. I'll always suggest a rookie behave in a certain manner until they understand the game. What i teach is for the solo player to get the most out of their character without needing to rely on their team (despite this being a team game go figure). Guilds can benefit more from going the toughness route as they'll have the supports to top off their health and the luxury of communication. For the solo player who knows what they're doing and will need to carry their pub team with clutch plays that wins the game I'll almost always recommend sustainability.

    But in the end if the player doesn't know the maps, damage values and how to interact with each enemy class then any info on this subject won't do a whole lot anyway :p
    LordSloth likes this.
  4. Mkoll Oan-Mkoll Steam Early Access

    tbh armor regen is not worth it since it does not accelerate the regen process only the delay. Those regen builds sacrifice to many stats.

    I once crunched the numbers (which I obv dont have anymore since everything was pretty vague cause I did not have proper regen times and had to ingame test) with differnet tac builds for 50% armor dmg taken/ 100% armor /100% armor, 50% hp damage taken and calculated EHP for different time periods (like reloading a drum magazin or 5 secs) for reengaging a fight, I came to the conclusion that if you have more armor to shield you before hand you will have more armor over after a fight, your ehp will be higher even tho the regen on the other build kicks in sooner it did not generate enough armor to make up for the fact that you have 10 or 20 armor more in your build. and given the fact that the regen builds tanks with hp sooner and has lower ehp max. the conclusion was not worth it especially considering that how and when to engage is a player skill.

    On Veterans on the other Hand (you got so many points to play with) or if you really fight like every fucking 5 seconds. It can be useful (usually firefights are over after 2 reengages)
  5. Saphirone Water_Snake Steam Early Access

    Well the thing is made to cut through vehicules like land raiders which is x2.5 bigger than a predator, even more massive and resistant, with 8 weapons on it. Go figure out why it can one shot you.
  6. Appledrink Appledrink First Blood!

    My post was sarcasm.
    Whitefox550 likes this.
  7. Slough Monster Slough_Monster Arkhona Vanguard

    This is awesome and definitely more user friendly then looking at my mess of numbers for EHP. Good work Mkoll.
    Oan-Mkoll likes this.
  8. Construct_ Thraxus First Blood!

    Argh! the numbers! my mind bleeds! @Whitefox550 how do I read this!

    Nice post though, I can see a lot of work has gone into it, I assume for those who know how to read it, it'd be helpful.

    I've always believed there is a number wall you need to hit in order for points spent to mean anything where anything less is not worth the bother, and where anything more is a waste of points.

    This appears to back up that belief, and yes, it is defiantly more of an instinctual belief based on how the game feels than an actual Tzeentch like understanding for the back end physics.
  9. Catnium Catnium Well-Known Member

    Aye this is why i play my Howling Banshee with 100T because it doesn't matter much on eldar at all.

    On chaos getting 150T is pretty baseline for nurgle and you can't really avoid not having 150T unless you absolutely most not take warp touched armor . like on a melta marine for instance.

    On LSM its 140t for the average trooper and 150T for a vet.
    most of the time i don't bother and focus more on armor , which thanks to artificer armor brings the marine up to an average of 120T anyways .

    Orks are close to MoN but without the disadvantage it's hard to not have 140T as a baseline on orks .

    When it comes to mitigating damage in my opinion Stamina still is king thanks to the iframes.
    I never do melee ( non shield bro ) without at least 3 or more stamina for this reason and most of my ork loadouts that aren't melee still have 3 stamina just to be able to monkey around during combat.. and to avoid friendly stick bombs .. coz boys love throwing stick bombs.
    My most successful HB loadout is squish AF it has along the lines of 150 hp 150 armor 100T 3 stamina 39% stamina regen. i can pretty much maintain stamina while cartwheeling around the opponent in between attacks thanks to the regen. this alone lets me fight (multiple) people better than any amount of toughness would .

    This all reminds me about discussions i've been having with other chaos players about the usefulness of MoT's shield regen over MoN Toughness.
    So if ur reading this chaos lads .. i was right ya bastards!
  10. Arteek Arteek First Blood!

    The formula for toughness has been on the forum for like a year. All you really need to know is that 10 toughness is equal to 4.5% damage mitigation. It's not about reaching a toughness threshold at all, it's just about how much ehp you'll get out of those 4.5%.

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