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Dream Bolter for UltraMarine

Discussion in 'Space Marines' started by PrplHze, May 13, 2017.

  1. Noah Ward NoahWard Game Designer

    Once it has been approved we're allowed to mess with the colors and materials because those colors and materials have already been approved. Updates or changes however will move the item into an unapproved state. We also need to keep a good balance between what players call "texture swaps" and actual new 3D assets. Too much copypasta does start to get noticeable afterall.

    All of the "just make a new texture" happens in data anyway, no need to mess with materials, no need to open photoshop. The way it works is we use a "material instance" that is a child of our master shader for each faction (pic below) and attributes of that material have been exposed for modification through data and gameplay tags. More simply and with less jargon that means the armor comes in as grey then designers flag it with tags like "SpaceMarines.BloodAngels" and "Class.Apothecary", the game goes and looks up what that means and colors the armor a bone white and adds logos and things. This is still all part of the integration process though. The game designers are the ones who know Apothecaries are white.

    You can read more about Unreal Physically Based Materials here:

    And more about gameplay tags here:
    (this is a bit dry and really only for devs I suppose)

    Bonus pic for people who read the whole post (no cheating!)
    Drops, Delatar, Tior and 11 others like this.
  2. Hey Noah any chance we see some weapons with a similar level of detail on the textures as the gilded bolter in the future? I am longing for some playful gothic art on textures. Not all over the whole weapon like for such a relic as the gilded bolter but parts here and there. So far we have mostly flat colors with some shader to give it a structure and the occasional skull here and there. How about some scratches, chiselled-like frame, small name plaque, prayers/scripture, kill markings texture based and not necessarily as 3D asset?
  3. Laanshor Laanshor Well-Known Member

    See that? Night Lords and Lords of the Dance complicating the flow for everyone else.
    Tior likes this.
  4. Proteus Lychoro ProteusVM Forum Beta Tester

    I think the only issue I take with this is that you say that too much copy-pasta gets noticeable, but there's not even more than 5 or 6 instances of copy-pasta in-game already. I know people don't want you releasing 50+ skin packs of the same thing but there's maybe two or three weapons in-game yet that are simply a 1:1 recolour/retexture.

    Just the basics, make some skins for them that look unique such as runes on the blade for a Space Wolf or a purity seal on the base of the knife for an Ultramarine, there's so many options here that surely wouldn't need approval all over again, since you said that you can work with the assets that have already been approved as long as they're not heavily modified to look like something else I imagine.

    Personally, I would buy any skin you release for the Bolter that emulates the designs that the OP has thrown together, even just an Ultramarine coloured bolter with an Ultima on the side, and I'd be happy to pay 4 - 6k RTC for it. And considering how easy it is to make for you guys, I'm surprised it hasn't been done sooner.


    Again, appreciate you coming out here Noah and I do hope that, even if it might seem lazy to you, that you come to the conclusion that at this point the community wants new content even if only some filler content (easy to make, such as what is suggested here) that would allow people to customize their character further and differentiate themselves even further from another generic marine.
    Laanshor likes this.
  5. Laanshor Laanshor Well-Known Member

    I totally agree ^

    If you need to do a poll or survey on what players are willing to tolerate and pay for simple skin colour and texture mask swaps then go for it.

    Personalization in this IP is defined by the sweep of a paint brush, so any way we can move to that feeling of cohesive but diverse should be followed up on (even if we do have to find GW art to support it).
    NoahWard and ProteusVM like this.
  6. Honestly, I was expecting these right from the start. I was expecting a battery of alternative skins all over the place at launch to keep us busy until a new wave arrives. And I am not speaking of recoloring a single skull on the hilt of a power sword, but a variety of skulls, shapes, colors, purity seals, scripture, used look, pristine look, different materials of the casing from wood to gold, industrial, artful, demonic, etc etc etc.

    all in the quality of these weapons (which look absolutely awesome in-game)

    of course the Dark Angels HB, PC and the gilded bolter look awesome too (and the stock bolter is the stock bolter...nothing to expect here really) but everything else is slightly underwhelming but still better than nothing...however most alt-skins leave the impression it could have been so much better.

    Btw the Dark Angels Plasma Cannon still is bugged by having the cable attached. It is a weapon using plasma cores as ammunitions rather the back pack and the attachement on top of the golden wings ruins the whole piece of work. We would need for both PC and HB a ammunition back pack free version of the Space Marines model (don't know if it exists already for the HB)
    Tzeentchian_Sorcerer likes this.
  7. Candle Candle Arkhona Vanguard

    I think the confusion here stems from how people think game development works.
    The idea of "Just copy the model and use a different texture!" really only works in Source, or something similar. Unreal is almost entirely shaders and programming without so much reliance on textures specifically. This is also why sometimes weapons just lose their color or become a different color (See: Chaos Marines having pure white stormbolters as previously, or the grey Wolf Priest Sternguard bolter), because the parameters are missing to actually give it the 'right' color.

    It's kind of like if you had the texture be a plain texture, like a slightly crumpled piece of paper, just all grey
    And to make it colored, you put in a line of code telling it that it needed to become Dark Angels' green, so that made it apply a multiply layer over it with the proper HEX or RGB.

    That, atleast, is how I understand the process.

    Some criticism on it would be that it definitely makes the models and textures more modular, but it at the same time makes them incredibly less intuitive to mess around with like you'd be able to do on a simpler engine.

    Again, I wish this game was just made on Source rather than UE4, but what can you do now?
  8. SissehBoi Yuu-tan Subordinate

    You assholes are tempting me to start drawing bolter variations, even the new bolter which I adore! even if ... even if, GW, for the Primaris armour, simply but Mk 8 Errant Armour with a Mk 4 Maxi' Helmet = 3= ... grumblegrumblesecretdurpangelgrumbles but ... it looks sexy an I hope bE does catch the hint that they'd make a mint if they just started modelling in actual armour parts an sets an iconography from the LSM an CSM.

    But like Candle stated, the process isn't all that simple. I'm hoping they clean up the Mk 4 maxi helmet at-least ...

    Anyhow, I may actually start drawing some bolter variations soon, bah! humbug, you blasted morons.


    Also don't blame the Devs, whilst I have gone off on tantrums, I apologise - but ultimately it all ends up on GW's desk, they're the ones that predominately lag the asset pipeline on any game concerning GW IP, as they ... for a lack of a better word, become very conflicting.

    This is a company that would sell its own grandmother for an extra buck or two of profits, whom lock themselves into an endless cycle, a loop of 'they don't buy it, thus they don't want it, thus we wont overhaul it, but because we wont overhaul it, they don't buy it, thus they don't want it and thus we wont overhault it.' Etc etc ... Looking at the poor SoB's at this point.

    Hopefully the EC devs can push it through an start up a quicker pipeline with meaningful updates and content. That inquisition cosmetic stuff? that did not do you any favours, now I understand modelling the Deathwatch's pouldron and gauntless would be difficult due to its intricate design.

    If only we lived in a world where companies such as the one developing EC would happily accept community made content so long as it was in line with the GW's IP - as in, the player themselves would not make any money off of it, perhaps just RTC or MVP, getting access to the devs far easier to further make more content.

    Such a perfect world it would be, one I'd happily whore myself out to and draw up a storm!
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  10. SissehBoi Yuu-tan Subordinate

    Stop linking porn ...

    I cant handle those nuts ...

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