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Do you feel like we are getting the short end of the stick... Again?

Discussion in 'Orks' started by Onomatopoetic, Nov 23, 2015.

  1. Rathael Rathael Arkhona Vanguard

    Too many pages to go through all of the replies, but...

    Aren't Orks S and T 4 just like marines in the table top? Like... one Ork boy is so bloody hardy that his natural biological strength and toughness is on the same level as that of the cream of the crop humans that were taken to and beyond with space science and life-dedicated training. The standard Ork is THAT powerful. He makes an imperial guardsmen look like a flower.

    They just lack the technology of the black carapace and power armour. I mean S and T 4 is as tough as even space marine special characters in almost all cases.

    Orks are definitely tough as nails. So tough, only a space marine is even capable of defeating them one to one. On top of that, they swarm planets with spores in numbers exceeding that of marines. They are BOTH just as tough and WAY more numerous and unrelenting with their biology. Orks are by far the most dangerous species, if it wasn't for the animosity.

    Ork boy will be a suitable class. They will likely be marginally tougher than marines in EC health-wise, but probably with less armour. I have no doubt each Ork player is going to be just as formidable as marine players.

    As for fiction and media, I agree it goes over the top. Take relic's space marine for example... as Titus you end up killing probably a few hundred Orks in the game. This just wouldnt happen in the tabletop. Captain or not, the boyz are definitely weaker than they should be. In EC one marine will be approximately equal to one Ork... though the balance may come from other mechanics (like increase in toughness when in a horde, for example).
    marculario likes this.
  2. Thank you for that post; warms my heart. Especially because you're a Blood Angel fan, which I am too ;)

    One thing; Orks have S 3. Yeah, I know. It's more for gameplay reasons I think, because they get Furious Charge, so S 4 on the charge. If Ork were made today, they would propably have S 4 instead.
    Zaeryn likes this.
  3. Reaper Reapz Subordinate

    It should be like that and I really hope it is, the one thing that has made me wonder is the fact that this game has a free to play option and the only race they will access too is Ork so I hope all the guys the oay to play Ork will get a character equal to that of the other factions and if there are to be weaker Orks they should go to free to play guys.
  4. Supposedly, a Marine's S and T come in part from the armour itself (although Scouts are also S4, so...).
    Orks also have two attacks each, and I doubt a boy can attack faster than a Marine or an Eldar. Stats are a pretty abstract take on a model's abilities in combat.
  5. Free2Waagh players will be just as good as any other player, but with fewer options for progression, gear and special characters.
  6. Reaper Reapz Subordinate

    Well that's good to know because in my opinion the more Orks the better I love fighting them and it will be more realistic if they have the numbers and are not cannon fodder.
  7. Rathael Rathael Arkhona Vanguard

    Honestly I think strength 3 isn't as offensive as it sounds. I remember reading somewhere back in like 4th edit on WFB or something that the strength statistic somewhat represents a model's capability to find killing blows rather than exclusively representing physical strength. Marines are highly trained at slaying whereas Orks attack with a little bit less finesse. Definitely doesnt mean Orks are physically weaker. If anything, Orks are physically more powerful than pretty much any other species' basic troops.

    I never liked the boyish fantasy of killing hundreds of enemies, made real by game mechanics as in space marine. I much prefer the idea of Orks being the unstoppable vicious brutes they are made out to be. Every last Ork should take as much of a beating as any marine... let alone mega nobs or warbosses. Warbosses should chew and spit the average tactical marine like tobacco. They don't unify the most physically imposing, barbaric and animosity-prone species for no reason, after all.
  8. Zaeryn Zaeryn Master

    Orks should be bad at long and medium range but good at close range and melee. Off base stats they should be at a melee disadvantage but using their personal WAAAGH! Active ability should temporarily give them a melee advantage against their opponents. Other Orks being nearby should provide passive WAAAGH! bonuses, each Ork equal to a percentage of the Active.
    For ranged, WAAAGH! could reduce weapon recoil but should not provide any direct improvements to their weapon; unless, while the WAAAGH! Active ability is in effect, Orks would not use ammunition or would use a reduced amount.

    The WAAAGH! Active would buff the user and nearby Orks for a short duration and have a moderate cooldown, encouraging squads to juggle the use of it to keep them buffed with the Active.
    The Active/Passive could work two ways: 1) they stack, allowing smaller squads(5 Orks and up) to use the Active to double/maximum buff themselves, 2) they don't stack so Orks must form larger groups(9 Orks and up) in order to gain the max buff.
    The Active could have some bonuses the Passive doesn't provide and vice versa, encouraging players to both group up and time the use of their Active in combat.

    Fightin' Juice! can encourage more reckless, Orky tactics such as rushing across kill zones. After applying a small heal, the Juice! would continually heal over a long period of time(I.E. 5-seconds). If the Ork with the Juice! goes Down they would have increased Crawl Speed and Down HP, allowing them to reach cover more quickly and survive longer. The Juice! could continue to heal them when Down and if they have at least 83.5% of their HP when the Juice! wears off they would be revived to the Critical State.

    Juice!'d up Orks should be more likely to rush across kill zones, getting Downed more often but also getting revived more often than their enemies, if not by allies directly then by the Juice! The fight results of such mechanics could have SMs with 250 Kills(Downs) vs the Orks' 100 Kills, while both sides only have 50 Deaths. More careful play from the Orks would of course result in less Kills for the SMs, even if they still died just as many times.

    Orks are S3 by default. They gain S+1 on the Charge. That being said, there is no reason why Orks cannot be of the same S by default if their Warboss and the Orks whose spores they grew from were particularly large and powerful.

    An Ork Boy should have the same HP as a Marine, with the same Armor as an Eldar Aspect Warrior by wearing 'Eavy Armor as a default. The Ork counter-part to C/SM Iron Halo and Mark of Nurgle can be Mega Armor and/or Cybork Body, increasing Armor and/or HP respectively.
    Their ranged weapons should in general be less accuracy, damaging and have shorter range than C/SM weapons but have firing rates that give their weapons lower TTKs than C/SM weapons when within their max damage range, putting Orks at a disadvantage in medium/long range combat and having an advantage in close range combat.
    Off base stats they should be out-matched by an Astartes or Aspect Warrior. With a full WAAAGH! buff from their Active or the Passive from nearby Orks they should have an advantage, that advantage growing if more Orks gather to develop a double/max WAAAGH! buff.

    That is represented by the SM's higher Weapon and Ballistic Skills than the Orks, giving them their greater chances to hit with their attacks.
  9. RageScreama RageScreama Well-Known Member

    I never get why people always say orks are weak at range. Deff guns, big shootas, and a lot of their energy weapons always seem pretty damn strong in terms of firepower to me. Accuracy has always been the downside not damage. I mean heck don't lootahs on the TT shoot down attacking aircraft quite often?
    Gashmangla and Reapz like this.
  10. Gubbkanz Gorgutz543 Well-Known Member

    'Dose 'fings would probableh be tha exceptions fer 'dat, maybe. While a Deffgun can EASILEH DAKKA 'EM AT LONG RANGE, 'dey ain't gonna be 'dat effective at hittin' tha git, unloike a braced 'Eavy Bolta fer example.

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