Have we? Because I concur they need to get rid of Clangs. They're garbage and make Melee vs Ranged impossible to balance.
Just balance it by making the Assault or melee support pistol negate 100% of all incoming ranged damage for the same duration 3 to 4 clangs negates 100% of all incoming melee damage and make the pistol FREE like the knife. That's what the knife is doing. Negating 100% of all incoming melee damage per clang vs 300 to 600 LP melee weapons for several seconds. And keep in mind that knife is free. If the knife can shut down all incoming melee damage for several seconds why can't the pistol do the same for melee archetypes? You see how absurd that sounds right? That's how absurd it is that a free weapon can provide 100% immunity to all incoming melee damage for 2 to 6 seconds(the time it takes to clang 2 to 4 times). Hell that's basically a Rosarius or Personal Force Field that's totally free. What a deal.
That's an interesting idea actually. Doesn't make much sense from a logic standpoint, but hey: It's 40k. Presumably it only negates in the cone in which it fires?
I was thinking a different approach. Maybe remove durability and just make a winning clang deal more damage. The larger the difference in weapon tier, the more damage goes through a clang. I.E a sword won't do much damage through a knife, by an Axe/Mace will ignore the clang and so full damage. I'm spitballing though.
I've seen that suggestion before (not saying you stole it or anything... ...or am I? ) and I would be content with that. In my mind's eye, though, if you do away with Clangs entirely, then not only are melee encounters going to be over much more quickly, but if they also did away with lock-on (entirely, both melee and smart *spits* pistols) it would also promote skilled play.
We dont need to get away from clanging completely. If we go back to the early months of Alpha and look at the original intent of clanging it becomes clear just what the fuck has gone wrong. 1. Clanging originally was a mechanic to make MELEE VS MELEE more interesting. That's Sword vs Sword, Axe vs Sword, Maul vs Sword, since Games Workshop said "NO" to blocking with melee weapons. 2. I dont think at that point back in 2015 anyone was thinking "hey this is a great way to let ranged archetypes become totally immune to all melee weapons for several seconds". In fact I'm sure if we went back in time this would be a laughable concept. 3. Through some witchcraft or warp trickery clanging has morphed into some totally fucked up concept where knives are providing total invulnerability and immunity to all incoming PRIMARY/HEAVY melee weapons. 4. We've abandoned common sense and logic and now it's somehow supposed to be "normal" and players feel entitled to the fact that a free fucking knife can go toe to toe vs swords, axes, mauls and fists. That's the very definition of insanity. 5. You get where we are today, melee archetypes are crap. Clanging should be a thing for KNIFE vs KNIFE, narthecium vs knife where you might clang several times. It should also be a thing for sword vs sword, Axe vs maul, maul vs sword. It should NOT be a thing with Fist vs knife, sword vs knife, that drags out more than one or two clangs. The Fist vs knife clang encounter should last about as long as a Heavy Bolter versus a Bolt pistol ranged encounter. And we all know how long you'd last with a Bolt Pistol versus a Heavy Bolter in a ranged duel. "But that's unfair to the knife user, everyone will just use Fists". But it's NOT unfair to the Ground Assault Bolt pistol user vs the Heavy Bolter? Oh that doesn't count, right? Since the Heavy Bolter totally destroys a Bolt Pistol in a ranged duel does everyone just run Heavy Bolters? The argument that Fists instantly breaking knives will result in Fists ruling supreme is totally ludicrous.
Reeee all you want buddy, I'm here to spread the glory of my Ultra Wisdom. The problem with clangs is that they make melee last too long. If two guys with chainswords clang, both should take damage. Knife should not clang (or be much less efficient ) against chainsword, chainsword against power sword, sword against axe, axe against maul, maul against fist, giving those 100LPs and slower attacks an actual advantage. This may solve the two of the three melee problems: -Dbash stunlock. -Eternal clang round. -Knife parrying everything.
One of the few times I can agree with the melee supremacists. Suggested my own take on it before as well. No clangs (some weapons just do reduced damage if they attack someone that is swinging in melee as well) fix weapon speeds, remove bash, remove lock on/scrub pistols, remove I-frames and speed up rolls/increase roll distance (this will also help grenades too as a flush people out of cover tool), getting hit with a melee weapon disables rifle tier or heavy weapons for a few seconds (forcing the person to switch into melee/pistol), remove the stagger on hit but let melee break sprinting and channeling (rezzing/capping/uncapping/using an item/charging a fusion/plasma/grav pistol). Add Melee FF since firing into melee punishes the user but flailing at the back of your teammates head does not punish you. Add extra recovery time on a missed swing (no more RMBing around the map apoths, also leaves a window for someone to time a dodge and spray with a pistol as a viable self defense option. This would let melee work like Flush troopers in that one guy (name escapes me ATM, apologies) Trench/Flush/Deny triangle with JPA being able to drop in and Deny the entrenched troops their ranged weaponry. Bonus wishlist: Change JPA slam from a stun to throwing people away/over the rail if braced or in cover against it with the "primary weapon disabled" penalty.
This would put melee in a state where knife wielders would need to be nuts on with the rps system if they want to win vs a melee archetype. The way it should be, imo.
