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CSMs... Doesn't almost always winning get a little boring?

Discussion in 'Chaos Space Marines' started by Data8671, Dec 19, 2017.

  1. Is this thread asking if CSM would enjoy the game more by losing to LSM because they deserve to win... Because LSM?

    I've seen some warp fuckery on this forum but this one is next level.
    Deathwish likes this.
  2. Lady Rheeva Steam Early Access

    If you payed attention, you would notice how 'people' are complaining about the NCS, not me. I am only bothered by the visual noise and the fact that every Raptor, T-rex and Diplodocus in the Chaos army uses it. (also it should be bound to Nurgle)

    However, on Raptors:
    They are arguably the weakest jump-class. Worse than Stormboy, I'll give you that, pretty much on par with the JPA with the NCS compensating for most downsides. Blop ranks both at A+ and I am inclined to agree given that the both most profilic Jetpack-players are in their ranks
    Furthermore, Raptors are a much, much more frequent occurence than JPA's and, admittedly, are also much more likely to be played by a decent fighter.
    I also want to point out, to you specifically, that no class uses the Smart-Pistol as much as they do.
    Last but not least, even if they were 'the worst jump-class', it would still rank them the third-best melee-class. (Jetpack>Shield>Everything else)

    On a personal note: I hate Raptors. That is largely due to the fact that there is very little counterplay against one other than hoping for my team to save me. All you really have to do is spam quick-attack or smart-pistol and not act like a complete idiot (like hitting walls) and there is next to nothing an Eldar can do to survive a Raptor-attack.
    Also because, if spammed in HTL, they are a better suicide-runner than the Tempest was at its prime.
    I have seen countless allies die to Raptors with literally nothing I could do about it.
    I agree that none of this is specific to the Raptor or the Raptors fault, but they are the most obvious target for my hate.

    As for Traitor-Assaults, I am only left wondering how I can get 50 kills on a Banshee and others, on a class that literally does the same thing but with 1.5 times the EHP, cant.
    On the other hand, a Scorpion is very similar in design to a TA, including the DoT-sword and I don't like to use them, so maybe there is a problem I am just not seeing.

    I give you 'sensational'. But that is not exclusive to Chaos. No matter the game, the faction, the class, the item you look at, you will always see statements that are more extreme than reality. Partially because of an actor-observer-bias, partially because it makes for a stronger point.
    Also, its much more illustrative that way.
    Lets say the available scale is 0-100, but all factions range in 45-55. However, if we discuss balance, it will often happen in terms of 1-10 to make a better point. Actual power-discrepancy is much smaller than it could be, but the relative distance between asset A and B and asset B and C can still be very big.
    Both Eldar and Chaos are tryhards tbh. Its a big part of the reason why both are frustrating to play against.
    On top of that, Eldar are very kill-hungry and will often abandon a position to get into fighting.
    Chaos deals with morale-issues similar to LSM. Once they are loosing, they will unlikely recover and everything falls apart if a plan does not work out.
    Truth be told, there is only a handful of players who really do everything they could for a win. Like: literally, I could probably name all of them. But there are a lot more who at least give it a good try if you encourage them a bit.
    As for capping: I don't really have a problem with people not capturing at all. But I don't believe its widely understood how important it really is to initiate a cap quickly. Generally, I don't think 99% of the players realize, how important speed is and how 2-3 seconds can make a match. Nay, how 2-3 seconds decide almost every match I play that is not a blowout.
    Yeah, this is exactly the sheet I was referring to that is meaningless.
    Here is my, full version if you are interested. K/D, I mean: please. It does not compensate for player-skill, it does not take into account AV, suppression, healing. We don't know if those kills came from farming a Zombeacon or camping a side-point.
    According to this chart, heavies would be the best class to play and we all know that isn't true. As a selection of factors to take into account:
    -How often and for which scenarios is a class picked?(For instance Heavies on a tower)
    -How many kills does a class make in a certain timeframe? (for instance a Scorpion camping a secondary objective will kill almost any lone wolf, but only every, few minutes)
    -Who plays this class and how well? (For instance the respective Tactical variants are often newbie-choices, hence cannon-fodder)
    -How does forced retreat or kiting affect actual combat-performance?(Important for instance for the Hawk)

    And, as Ive said. I can take this very information from the chart and frame it into a context that proves the exact opposite of your point. I can read pretty much anything out of it I want and reasonably explain how I reached that conclusion.
    The main takeaway from this chart should be the part where everything ranks in the area of 40-60%, which is really good balance. You can look at the rest and try to draw some conclusions, but there is simply too much noise to hold it in very high regard.
    There are some interesting statistics tho. For instance after the last, three nerfs to Eldar, the performance of the respective classes actually increased.
    I wouldn't know about any of this, bit before my time. It seems odd tho, as I can't remember a Blight grenade ever dealing any significant damage to me.
  3. Lady Rheeva Steam Early Access

    To be fair: Smarts are great for Jump-classes and Raptors don't have industrial Plasma pistols.
  4. EugeneHardy Recruit

    So if im the only on who's trying to kill that damn havoc who's sitting on the root and killing my teammates for 5 mins and im doing it wrong? and if its a team game we all must run as a group to be killed by a single grenade? Iv been killed so many times when there was few of my teammates in few meters from me because they just dont see red dots on the radar. You saying team game like all your fights are group vs group and you never do anything solo. I personally using stalker bolter only because to deal with havocs because looks like sm dont have jump assault or just dont want to make them stop killing their teammates from half a map. And i saw csm players with 30-40 kills per map, sometimes i watched how they play from cover. They just solo rape!! with adad skillz 2-3 players in a row teabagging them and running for more solo kills.
  5. Mainfold Mainfold Preacher

    To be honest, they should have removed the smart pistols outright already, they have no place anymore as the old reasoning of "for when the console release happens" doesn't hold any water now that it's become a 100% unlikely thing to ever happen. Generally melee lock-on should be removed entirely (so melee functions more like the ork melee where you're more or less forced to not use lock-on as the lock on at times just sends you in a straight line, and the enemy can just walk to the side and you miss).

    I'm all for more people using plasma etc, though industrial plasma pistol is substantially better than the MoS-requiring piece of crap burst plasma pistol chaos have lol, but orks have excellent choices for secondaries.. then again, chaos and eldar only have two choices so I guess that leaves more to be desired, where LSM have 3 with good variants of all of them available.
  6. Fryskar Fryskar Active Member

    Two days ago i decided to "challange" myself a bit on olipsis by only using my slaaneshi mc las cannon.

    It did well in reminding me why i don't play lsm anymore.
    Not only their abandoned rhinos died quick, their manned lived only a bit longer as they didn't realize the mounted SB is going to stop me. As the rhinos were out i decided to do the full match with this (weak?) loadout and proceeded to hunt lsm.
    It was somewhat sad yet entertaining. Only one sinlge dude (think from bro) even tried to aviod getting a nice, burning hole in their chest. Made some nice LotD toasts.
  7. As much as I agree that I'd like to win some times, its a team shooter title and if my team hasn't earned the win because we played like hot garbage then we don't deserve to win anyway. The only participation trophy I'm okay with is my Smart pistol, and even then its now only cuz it pisses @Deathwish off to hear that I still use it...
    Deathwish likes this.
  8. Dorfus Dorfus Steam Early Access

    oh boy just wait until all the lsm clans and vets come back for the campaign

    csm wont stand a chance
  9. dx144 dx144 Well-Known Member

    Team work needs a nerf obviously...

    Say you're with more than two members of your squad you should get a 99% Armour debuff and you get a 98% damage debuff.

    That'll show those damn team work using exploiters!

    #420N0Sc0p3z #S0l0D3mH3r3t1cs
  10. Necromancer Rivindesh Subordinate

    It is boring, but you LSM scared off all the xeno races so now you get to face the evil clone versions of yourselves. Unfortunately for the LSM faction we don't share the competence of a child eating a lit candle.

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