Neither of these are true. How do I know? Because Games Workshop explicately has a mandate to never speak about the actual fate of the lost legions, they are primarily a tool to ensure people have creative freedom. The rumors sprinkled around the books are just that, rumors, it's possible the Space Wolves were executioners once...but it's not likely...and there's about a squillion different ways the Ultramarines numbers could of swelled considering Robutes track record. I know it's not precisely the most fluffy answer but...there you go.
never forgot that the lore of warhammer is first of all a tool for craft personal narratives and stories
That?s what I like about these two missing legions and their mentioning in the Horus Heresy Books It's just these little bit of hinting at something, but you are not sure if its just a rumor or a part of the truth. Even though I hate unresolved stories (X-files trauma) I can only guess that any kind of revealing the mystery will be either plainly boring and can not live up to the unfolding imaginations of all the fans of 40k. These small things in the HH keep me into the series even though after reading all the books (except Deathfire, which waits for me already on a pile of unread other BL books) I have to admit it get's quite confusing some times ^^ I always sticked to the Fire Hawks as their origin but I believe Grigd, so I think there could be more behind them. Is it really the embodiment of the Emperor's Will manifesting in a perfect fearless image of his creation the Space Marine Legions or are these restless spirits of fallen Space Marines. In the Space Marine Battles Novel these Legionaries are described as being dropped out of nowhere onto the surface of the planet in a Coffin these coffins are empty, but each have a badge with a Name and if I remember correctly a date (which might be the death of the particular warrior!?). My interpretation of these coffins is that these house the spirit of the warrior written on the badge. At one point these warriors manifest and relentlessly slay their enemies. Later on there were mentions of the emperor Tarot cards being involved...I have to read that novel again to put them into the right context, I don't remember if each of the fallen humans had an emperors tarot card on their grave or the coffins... Anyway, this sounds quite supernatural to me ^^ no living space marines inside these armors In regard to the OPs question, these Marines could theoretically stem from one of the lost legions and maybe to get absolutions from the Emperor after death are allowed to repent their sins by slaying the enemies of the Emperor in this state between living and dead...to let their souls rest in the end...who knows
By memory one Primarch was lost and never found, and during a time it was said to be Sigmar (cf warhammer fantasy) blocked on a planet lost in a never ending warp storm, the second was damned and put down by his brother and father. For the legionnaries without Primarch they were transfered in the Ultramairnes and world bearers making those two legion the biggest of all. But as my memory is i can be right, half right or fully wrong... Btw i don't care my players play in my W40k world and never contested me as GM... Or they die, burned like heretics they are.
This used to be true but Black Library has been given full canon over The Horus Heresy. Ephaistos above is correct. The lost Primarchs have only ever been referred to as "The Lost and The Purged." There are also numerous hints and thoughts about them in the Horus Heresy series. I know of references in False Gods and I believe The Lightning Tower respectively. "I fear the Emperor will break the Word Bearers -- and break me. We would be cast alongside the brothers we no longer speak of." - Lorgar speaking to Magnus The Red "The second and eleventh plinths had been vacant for a long time. No one ever spoke of those two absent brothers. Their separate tragedies had seemed like aberrations. Had they, in fact, been warnings that no one had heeded?" - Dorn standing outside the Imperial Palace. The being folded into Ultramarines IS rumor but it is a pretty ridiculous coincidence. "But the Eleventh Legion -" "Is expunged from Imperial record for good reason. As is the Second. I'm not saying I don't feel temptation creeping over me, brother. A single sword thrust piercing that pod, and we'd unwrite a shameful future." Dagotal cleared his throat. "And deny the Ultramarines a significant boost in recruitment numbers." Xaphen regarded him with emotionless eyes, seeming to weigh the merit of such a thing. "What?" Dagotal asked the others. "You were thinking it, too. It's no secret." "Those are just rumours," Torgal grunted. The assault sergeant didn't sound particularly certain. "Perhaps, perhaps not. The Thirteenth definitely swelled to eclipse all the other Legions around the time the Second and Eleventh were 'forgotten' by Imperial archives." The other 2 were even found and lost before Corax was even found. (Emperor) "You and your brothers were taken from me by denizens of the Warp before you were ready." "Brothers?" Corvus was excited by the prospect, pushing aside the questions that the Emperor's answer had prompted. Though he had made many friends amongst the prisoners of Lycaeus, always Corvus had been aware of his otherness, and when they had started to call him Saviour any hope of normal relationships had ended. That there were others like him filled Corvus with hope again. "Yes, you have brothers," said the Emperor, smiling at His son's delight. "Seventeen of them. You are the Primarchs, my finest creations." "Seventeen?" Corvus asked, confused. "I remember that I was number nineteen. How can that be so?" The Emperor's expression grew bleak, filled with deep sorrow. He looked away as he replied. "The other two," he said. "That is a conversation for another day." As for it being the Space Wolves that purged one of the forgotten Legions. I believe it is in Prospero Burns: (Kasper Hawser) "There's a first time for everything." (Russ) "Exactly," he grunts. "The unprecedented. Like… Astartes fighting Astartes? Like the Rout being called to sanction another Legion?" "That?" he answers. He laughs, but it is a sad sound. "Hjolda, no. That's not unprecedented." - Russ And in The Thousand Suns Prospero book it talks about Russ always having been The Emperor's Executioner and attack dog. It is true that they will never give specifics of the 2 lost legions because they want you to be able to forge the narrative, but that doesn't mean that we don't know what happened to them. "The Lost and The Purged" were specifically done that way so that 1 is loyal and 1 is heretical so that you can forge the narrative for Chaos Warbands or new Successor Chapters with unknown origins.
I'll just go ahead and take one of ADBs many, many posts on the subject at random and put it here because it's more insightful then anything I could write up. In response to someone on the bolter and chainsword about the Lost Legions Space Wolf possibility: "I think you're mixing up two quotes, there. Magnus and Lorgar are talking in The First Heretic, and they mention not being able to discuss it further, for fear of the Emperor's punishment. It has nothing to do with the Wolves, they're not mentioned, as their "executioner" thing didn't exist then. And the Emperor sent the Wolves to Prospero to arrest Magnus and bring him back. Horus deceived Russ into destroying the planet. Also, we (as readers and fans) know the Wolves didn't kill the LostLegions, because no one did. There's no explanation and there likely never will be. The Wolves doing it is just another tantalising in-universe possibility (that Space Wolf fans have latched onto and want to be true, naturally). Also, the Space Wolves say they were created to do that. So far, the only evidence we have is one of the smallest Legions attacking Prospero with the Sisters of Silence, the Custodians, and their own enemies putting up no resistance until the last moment. In the same book, we also have the Wolves claiming they're the most savage Legion (they're not, that's always been the World Eaters) and the most frightening/fearsome (they're not, that's always been the Night Lords). It also states that no Space Marine can outfight a Space Wolf one on one, which we know isn't true because all Space Marines are equal in that regard. What we've got here is narrator bias, which is all part of a good book. It only suffers when it's biased towards the largest fandom in the license and they take it as gospel truth of their sheer betterness." To put simply, while we *think* we might know something solid on the Lost Legions, we never will and it's better that way. Their whole point is to remain unrevealed, but wrapped in tantalizing possibilities. Even the Heresy team with it's power over lore won't change that, and they don't have any desire to it seems.
Nice find. Hearing about how the Space Wolves had killed those two legions had always annoyed me for the reasons you mention above. It was GW taking away narrative tools. If they're saying that it isn't necessarily what actually happened because the narrators were biased, then it matters less.
Uh this "The remainders of the legions were folded into the Ultramarines." is completely false. HH book 5 Tempest explicitly states how the Ultramarines got their numbers, and never once does it mention taking the marines from the lost legions
Perhaps they were more prone to mutation than the SW and Thousand Sons. If one of them was already a monster by the time they found him then it's definitely within the Emperor's character to have censored him. He wouldn't want the galaxy to know that even the Primarchs can fall to mutation, that's bad press and may cause mutant sympathy. That would explain why the othets are just sad about it and don't want to talk about it. That's my theory now. One joined xenos and the other was a mutant. I mean, why else would not even the traitor Primarchs want to talk about it?
