it's unreliable, however it can be lowered depending on how skilled the artists are...and we do have good ones. Keep in mind that there will be more subfactions, which means more room for art design, nine per space marine faction with more for extra warbands/chapters and probably a couple more for Orks and Eldar. It's not really something we can calculate, for better or worse. But if we assume that each warrior founder buys one set of armor, that doubles our payout. If they decide they want another set later, that triples it, if done well it'll snowball rapidly.
Trolls won't ever be convinced The cynical probably wouldn't believe until the game was out and the gameplay examined. The paranoid will think the shadow government did it to take our guns ;P
Unfortunately, the people who scream PtW are also the ones who are establishing the reputation in a great number of places outside this game. So making them, you know, not scream PtW is a desirable outcome. I don't understand this "If you read, you'll see that the items have in-game equivalents, PtW is totally unfounded" argument. It is nowhere in actual writing. Not on the site, not on the forums, nothing. It was mentioned twice, speculatively, in 1 hour livestreams, by miguel, that they might be canceling the sidegrades concept. This is not by any means a reassuring confirmation. Conspiracies are opposed by overwhelming quantities of evidence - here, all we've got is one shaky quote from an unreliable studio lead. And it bears mentioning, again, that most people consider significant weapon variety that is purchase only an advantage, regardless of balancing. The concept of sidegrades not being PtW will not hold any meaning for them, because the very act of blocking interesting gameplay for cash is considered despicable by itself. Locking off the Eldar Vyper to founders has no intent other than to make people who pay less have less fun. If it was about looking cool, they could just sell a skin as a cosmetic.
-dont sell "end-game loot" (preserve value of new content) -separate purchased and in-game currecny in the rtp store? keep em comming sergeros http://www.gdcvault.com/play/1012520/The-Future-of-MMO-Monetization http://www.gdcvault.com/play/1019253/Balancing-Monetization-to-Succeed-in http://www.gamasutra.com/blogs/RaminShokrizade/20130626/194933/The_Top_F2P_Monetization_Tricks.php you can gift away rtp/ packs/bundles right? temporary gift/unlock http://www.gamasutra.com/view/feature/134825/the_fwords_of_mmos_freetoplay.php?print=1 open up tradeability with rtp/money to the players between the players http://www.gamasutra.com/view/feature/134789/the_fwords_of_mmorpgs_fairness.php?page=4 p2w and t2w groups need to find middleground, realize they need eachother. "p2w group" cant be allowed to bypass the "boring grind" and "t2w group" need to accept that some ppl doesnt have as much time as time but are willing to pay for everyones new game features/content. p2w -> evolve to p2p-pay to progress (obtainable in game). the core og the game needs to change, not us? (is horizontal progression it?)
I don't think i'd *ever* want to find a middle ground with the pay to win group, and indeed we're better off without them. Per chance, do you mean pay to advance? That I could stomach, as long as it's only pay to advance quicker.
im saying t2w and p2w are old/obsolete but, that we have to unite into p2a/p2p/b2p/b2a (pay2advande, pay2 progress, buy2progress, buy2advande), something new. We need to realize that we need eachother for bigger, more qualitative games like EC. EC/ PS2 production/ development/ new features/ content probably costs more than runescape/ tibia/ lol/ app games/ fb games. We need to put "old grudges" behind us and look forward for new solutions / systems. whales/spenders/old p2w'ers wants alot of players to play with once they do have time to play. savers/ cheapers/ old t2w'ers wants new updates /features/ content, a quality game that expands, some one needs to pay/ the company needs income in order for this to happen. We need to find common ground, change the basic principles of how this can work, we need to collaborate, collaboration is the future and we are depending on eachother. it got late, didnt clean it up, i where refering to your earlier post when you where bombarding us with ideas to monetize.
Ahhhhhh! Okay, now I see. With all due respect your text was a bit too hard to read, so it did legitly look like you were putting forward a pay to win agenda, this sounds a lot more reasonable.
Gathering new ideas from googling and H1Z1's reddit forum: -minor adversiements? -limit box sale, digital focused sale (think were already there) http://www.gamesindustry.biz/articles/2013-09-05-three-worlds-monetising-the-mmo -retention, keep players/ fight for them = updates the answer? weekly/ monthly , smaler and bigger, both. is LoL successful due to new champion updates every 3 weeks? it kinda renews the game compleatly every 3rd week, king of microtransactions. WoW big expansions about every 2nd year, seems to survive on big pr jippo and forced subs. EVE, middle-big expansions every year. Adopt the best of all three, update wise. LoL's updates might have the same impact like EVE's yearly, pros/ cons, whys? different types of updates aimed toward different group types of players? -a pack cheaper/smaler than warrior pack to attract more players. probably has to do with preventing population imbalances. http://www.reddit.com/r/h1z1/comments/23oqm8/we_had_our_first_monetization_meeting_yesterday/ H1Z1 seems like an interesting upcoming game. Lower prices to 1-3bucks per customization but have 1000s of em. Something we should follow, its monetization developments, they also want to go full cosmetic non p2w. http://www.listal.com/list/monetization-tiers -decore gear, visible in game, eventually has slots for it in the loadout. decals, throphys, brags, cool accessories. -collaborate/ communicate with other companies on how to solve the monetization issue? exchange notes -ultra low month fees as subs, playable all races? 2-5 bucks? have that idea up the sleeve if you dont make enough money? are ppl more susceptible to be milked in low quantities if there having fun? -"loot crate"/lets see whats inside, pre check? -clan/group advertisements in game -in-game event, world drop of relic/ item, loot, aircraft crashdown/ remnants pieces, something that springs curiosity n fight for. with some heads up/ timer on "world map". +tyranid pack on it? server load.. these could be bought but not guarantee you will get em, everyone can thecnically, and its random location? -spray cans, premade, custome, degenerating with time? mark/ tag what you take over / "ruin" oponents base "came conquered, left you in shame", placable standard/ some mark, drop pod . customize the overtaking of a base, could work as for attractive monetizing ppl are willing to pay for. -customization (armor, weapon, tanks), "upgrade" the existing work with a little more cool in it -how are the rtp obtained for "free players"? is it grinded or on a daily/ weekly basis? -customized servers ppl "rent/hire/buy" from you? -game feature, bounties on person/ clan? -ustomized ui, music, sounds, or icons, personel/ player icons, our own, name tags -starter packs, like ps2 http://www.globalcollect.com/news/b...ization-and-player-conversion-in-video-gaming alternative payment methods http://www.slideshare.net/DavidPChi...-and-case-studies-game-connection-europe-2013 monetization-retention. daily rewards for logging in, that doesnt punish you if you miss a day, that doesnt reset after 5-7 days (encourage ppl to come back). could maybe be tied to f2p obtaining rtp? daily gift roulette. avoid punishments in all ways. keep players bussy = stayin players = happy players = paying customers in the end i hope. reward directly after downtime? http://adachen.com/2009/09/16/gdc-austin-mmo-and-virtual-world-monetization/ http://www.gamasutra.com/blogs/Etha..._Heroes_of_Warcraft_monetization_analysis.php http://www.polygon.com/2014/2/28/5451410/how-is-ethical-free-to-play-path-of-exile-faring use youtube n advertisement , pr with ads http://bg.snailgame.com/news/view/23 wierd innovative stuff, "buy files/ hours" afterhand, the rare items, possibility to gamble. something. buy "missed game time" files stored, with limits like 6-12hours exp you can buy per day or week, month? allocate these exp? hmm with restrictions? insteed of boosters, buy lost/ missed exp? seems fair. could be bought with rtp ? kinda sounds like a "rest" boost. -"voting with your wallet" Gathered from H1Z1'a reddit forums emotes / taunts. mini gakes, poker? music instruments? liars dice, dice game, card deck games collectable, tradable mini game, mimic/ something similar? customize forum/ profile space?, customizeable things whne you take over a fort/ object. kickstarter/ funding meters in some way to get some certain content developed. money bombs. gifts to gift to others. music in game somehow? voice packs / voice on the com packs. instances, capture the flag mini games or alike? fireworks, crackers. ultra low prices for cosmetics existing in massess. security usb lik blizzard? crowd funding roadmap targets. gender change. smal-medium-large sub obtions, different costs n % minor bonuses? irl stickys, decals to put on clothes, vintage style? irl board game? irl merchandice figures/ space marine helm. kickstarers. http://forum.gamesports.net/dota/showthread.php?1839-A-Different-Way-to-Monetize-Dota-2 wierd, pay smal fee per instance/match/ game. sub section in the game? -buy4convenience, how many hours of grind for an achievment are okay before it turns into p2w? limit buys of certain items with a time restriction? -pay for "missed game time", month limited before it restart what you can buy to "recover"? i think Patrick have written about something like this somewhere. "it takes x amount of time whether you pay or play. pay for lost time. Allow like 10-16h's worth of exp for char1, char2 75% of that, char3 50%, char4 25% worth. if you allow it to only one char, could work, customer will multi account but by the time the person swapped account the situation is "over" probably. multy accounting/ factioning and having the same ability to do this wont inflict an advantage as its based on time passed + another side. 2 options of what to buy, nr1 more exp with less gear+is more common/mid rare, nr2 less exp but more gear common-rare. allocate exp afterwards or set a "training que" much like eve. or an option of amount of loot ex: 3items wiht low chance of more rare items or 1item with higher chance of more rare items. counted by the hour. set price per day / week/ month. separate server to lower server stress. calculations can be done once the person logs back online. -will news feed from game be in the razor com?
On the FaQ tab on the website, it is mentioned that "All gameplay items in the store (characters, vehicles & weapons) are “sidegrades”. They have a unique appearance and unique flavor, but are not more powerful and do not have unique roles that cannot be obtained through normal means in-game." That is where people probably got it from. I am not arguing with your logic. It is reasonable to think that way with the history of this series, especially when it comes to video games. Isn't there still a chance though that maybe they are telling the truth? Is it possible that they want to do the right thing? They do have a small team as far as I can see on the website so could that inhibit then from correctly informing us? It is still in the air, and there are a lot of questions that must be answered. I think we will know everything before the release at some point. I hope this game does well and I hope these guys aren't out to make a quick buck and fuck everyone over. That's why I am still reserving my judgment until something concrete is put up.
See, it's not that I don't think that the devs want to do right by this game. I've seen that they're passionate about the IP and about the concept of this huge combat experience. But I think it is, by definition, impossible to make a sidegrades system that is not in some form PtW. And that it is simultaneously also useless and counterproductive to creating quality purchased content. The reason for the first is that game balance is difficult and often an ongoing process, and thus newly released weapons are frequently OP to start out and then nerfed later. I point to PS2 as living proof of this, in particular the Striker rocket launcher or the Annihilator, which had very powerful unforseen effects when used by combined forces that were completely game changing before their respective nerfs. But the critical difference between PS2 and the EC model is that every statistical difference in PS2 could be ground for. If you wanted an new OP weapon, you could always grind for a week and get it, and have some fun before the nerf showed up. But in EC, those items would be shop only, or worse, founders only, and thus that inevitable pre nerf period will just be a straight advantage for a premium class of player. And that will fucking suck for everybody. The reason for the second, that it's just counterproductive to make "sidegrades", is that there's really no player benefit in selling gameplay mechanics. Miguel keeps talking about "pay to look cool", but sidegrades don't do that, cosmetics do that. That's the whole point of cosmetics, it's a great business model, tons of games have used it, people spend money on it, and it works. The only reason you need to sell gameplay on top of that is blackmailing people into thinking that if they don't buy this thing, they're missing out on a gameplay experience. You're selling an intentionally incomplete game and forcing people to shell out for the missing pieces. And many players find that to be a terrible idea in and of itself, regardless horizontal balancing that surrounds it, and will be lambasting the game both before and after release for it. So no, I don't think the devs are bad people. I don't think they're trying to run a scam. But I think they're making some very shady business decisions about their in-game purchase policy, not making solid statements or actions to the contrary, and expecting that people will be ok with it.
