Yep, I was that "Kicking Simulator" player XD Breakable environments also made the kick effective as hell...But I don't think that we will be allowed to destroy anything with kick, so it won't be so effective. I hope that devs will create more balanced cooldown than in DM, because "kick-kick-kick" duels won't be interesting at all
I "trust" the Behaviour team,so far,they have been doing the approach i expected and hoped they would. I am just afraid they butcher the lore in order to make this more "accesible" to people who haven't heard of 40k before.Maybe its a silly,unfounded fear,but hey,we all have our fears. Maybe i was too elitist,will have to reconsider. Would be nice to see a dev's comment at this point.
Haven't played Dark Messiah, though Warband had to nerf its original kicking mechanics a lot because it was too easy to land. I can appreciated some levels of constraint in that particular type of action. I agree, technology is the bottom line in determining exactly what can happen with the mechanics here. Differentiated attacks and being able to block these attacks is important. When you start going down the route of combos (even with "combo breakers" being present) it turns into a race on who can hit their buttons faster to pull of their combo first. Feels too much like an arcade game to me and I think would break immersion to a degree. For SM it worked out alright due to the minimal number of players active in multiplayer and for single player it does allow for a level of cinematic quality. Though nice it brings the camera away from the character and turns them into a spectator of sorts. I want to play, not to watch myself play. The idea of combos can exist though I would look more for something like a slight bonus/modifier to damage when successive hits are scored. Some modifiers (I really don't care for them though) might be blocking recovery slows a little (simulating stamina) or bleeding (though that might be a bit much to include for such a large-scale game). Maybe stagger or a knockdown effect. All of these are unnecessary though. The main problem I have with rigid combos is that there is less inclination or opportunity to adapt to the shift in the fight. If the system forces you into making combo chains you're basically stuck with following it through even when you are exposed. Break the chain and your physical momentum drops to nothing (like with SM). Basically this is an artificial halt in the fight that makes sense in SM but I feel doesn't fit for the scale of EC. Grappling would be interesting but probably too much to bother with. I like the idea of including kicks, shoulder bashes, shield bashes, charges in some capacity though, however they would have to have some type of cooldown to avoid spam and "stun lock" if that is a byproduct. Perhaps include them as "perks" or "traits" or associate them with certain class types rather than being available all the time. I have my doubts that having a dynamic melee system in place will ruin the "mainstream" potential of success for the game though. Ranged play would likely be the majority of the gameplay and so actually having a situation where it is an isolated 1v1 melee is probably uncommon to the point that allowing for robust melee shouldn't be a problem. If I engage an enemy in melee in the middle of a huge skirmish there's a pretty good chance I'll get my ass sniped/mowed down by heavy guns and so regardless of if I have to learn a bit to get better with melee I'm probably dead anyway because of my decision to engage in the first place. Or at least that SHOULD happen, heh. I have enough fun with archers... automated fire will be ridiculous, haha. Games nowadays are way too direct, too forgiving in a lot of respects. I would welcome actually having a bit of something to LEARN and grow with rather than just loading this up and playing it like any other offering out there - again, that is the main reason why I still play Warband, I'm STILL learning. The experience has to be unique and robust to keep players at it. To my knowledge, hot keys and such are already being done away with (thus alienating some of the "mmo" community) how would this be more of a hit in terms of potential growth? Can't melee? well, you can always shoot them right? or run them over with a tank... or make them explode... or, you get the point.
That is unfounded and elitist. Making it more accessible doesn't mean they have to butcher lore or anything. They've already reassured us multiple times that lore is a high priority for them. The community has made it clear that it's important. It can't be a perfect representation but it will be as close as they're able, I'm sure. This is still something that has to succeed in a market. It could be a shining pinnacle of accuracy but if only hardcore 40k fans play it then it will die. A bigger pool is needed and like I said before, accessibility isn't always a bad thing. ^My understanding of general combat in 40k is shoot until your magazine is dry, then charge into melee. If you can get the jump on the enemy first then melee. Basically it all comes back to melee.
While it wouldn't "ruin" the mainstream potential of the game, I honestly feel like melee battles would be too drawn out if they added a more "complex" melee system. The TTK is already going to be slower than most FPS, so anything more than right click -> swing | middle click -> block | shift+right click -> charge would be kind of pointless. There will be far more emphasis on ranged combat than anything. So like you said, trying to run up into melee will more often than not end up you getting killed; There's no reason to have a dynamic melee system. People give less credit to Space Marine than they should. There was kicking, rolling, stomping, slamming, shoulder bashing, charging, choppin', all depending on the order in which you pressed two buttons(three if you count sprint). Don't really need anything more in-depth than that.
It's also stupid to only bring a melee weapon to a gun fight. Just saying. I love raptor, and full intend to play whatever class is close to it however, no way am I going to run about with out some sort of ranged attack. If you choose to play melee only then, well suck it up when you get knocked/pinned down.
Give this guy a cookie he knows what hes talking about the game didnt have that complex meelee combo combat sytem but danm you could pull of soo many sick moves if you knew how to roll!(play).
I don't understand how having a more robust and nuanced combat system would make melee even more drawn out (for the general public). If its just a 1-held-button blocks all situation then I can see the point, but if you have to deal with a number of directional attacks and therefore direct your blocks accordingly there is an increase in potential for missing the block. You miss the block a couple of times and you're done; that should help keep the TTK from being over-the-top unless the players involved are proficient enough and are fighting in an isolated instance (say an interior room). If anything, over-simplifying the system is a greater cause of unnecessarily prolonged melee. If everyone can do it, if there is no skill involved, it becomes absolutely meaningless. I agree that SM had some good features and kept it pretty straight-forward. Certainly well-done for that game and not ignoring that fact, I don't think a number of its features fit well in a larger, non-solo atmosphere that EC projects to be. There has to be some level of capability for the player to counter their opponent. Charging, stomping and a lot of the other bits are just fine for controlling AI mobs but are unnecessary for mass pvp. I include them in the discussion due to EC seemingly carrying a lot of influence from SM, so it makes sense that some of these mechanics are being considered. Past that, I don't think they are really needed. Perhaps my arguments aren't being articulated well. I really don't want gimmicky gameplay - things like kicks and charging and shield bashing and stomping - because it detracts from skill-driven and meaningful growth. By dynamic and robust and nuanced, I refer to a simple system where the handful of actions involved can be tweaked by how and when you initiate them. Give me attacks that require a bit of thought and allow for nuanced action (holding before release, angles allowing for the illusion of speed change; not required for people to be able to fight, but allows for those willing to work to have something to look for). Give me a way to block those attacks that also requires a bit of thought or recognition. Minimize the influence or prevalence of actions that cannot be defended against. For me that's what it comes down to. Holding a button that will block everything all the time isn't fun or rewarding. Tapping one button that will attack in exactly the same way every time isn't fun or rewarding. Hitting a couple buttons in sequence to do an "undefendable" special action like a stomp or charge or what have you isn't fun or rewarding. Although a facet of the game may be in modest or uncommon standing this should not equate to it being overlooked, or worse, ignored.
The directional attack system looks to clunky, with no weight behind each strike and leads to spam, i rather have the SM melee combat (with improvements and a little bit more depth) than anything similar to M&B or War of the Roses.
