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Comprehensive approach on balance

Discussion in 'General Discussion' started by Rheeva, May 30, 2017.

  1. please buff Rhinos so they are not insta killed by eldar. buff plasma cannon to bring it on par with the equivalents of other factions. put a stop to ADAD strafing "LSM really at a disadvantage in this area" make it so most master crafted weapons are not more of a penalty then a benefit to use. buff other tac weapons to make bolter less the go to weapon "really feel that 90% of what I open for crates and buy in advancements are useless" fix melee with eldar "fast melee does not interrupt charged eldar melee for example" make fire round available to all not just vets because of how few ailment causing weapons/powers LSM has compared to other factions. remove stalker bolter completely, give us back our stalker rounds and replace stalker bolter with a better weapon "stalker rounds should NEVER have been removed to begin with! it should be my choice how I want to use them and if I want CQC barrel with no scope it should be allowed as that took more skill than any of the other factions cheese" let APO and pain boys knock revived people to their feet to avoid a 9/10 chance for grenade death getting to your feet "considering you can't finish off a down chaos/eldar being sorcerer buffed" nothing to do with balance but please make RTC bought weapons a skin. thank you
  2. Lady Rheeva Steam Early Access

    Not just this game. The fact of the matter is that a Dev-team has a compltely different perspective, having access to statistics that tell them how things actually are rather than how they feel and having to look at a big picture.
    What the community usually wants is a simple solution to very few problems that makes everyone happy.
    However a solution like that doesnt usually exist.

    In a utopian scenario, yes. What you get on the forums is derailing. Most people who will engage in a discussion do not do it to search enlightenement or because they want a new perspective, but because they want to convince someone else that they are right.
    Unless the OP is willing to question her own position to begin with, all you will accomplish by challenging it is two hours of several people repeating variations of the same point over and over unless someone gets tired of it.

    I do that too. But I found my 'rules' an interesting approach, as you are forced to think outside the box if you are only allowed to propose changes that would be to your immediate disadvantage.


    I dont think you are getting it. I dont think you've read the rules either.
  3. Cabal Trainee CabalTrainee Arkhona Vanguard

    Your rules imply i have one single faction. This is a really narrow point of view. I play Eldar nowadays as much as Chaos. So either i break your rules or i can't participate. :(
  4. Nosfantor Recruit

    In general people who play a single faction exclusively have quite a limited understanding of faction balance and often feel their main faction is more underpowered than it actually is.

    Alot of LSM players for example refuse to play the other factions and yet think it's very obvious that their faction is the worst. I have a rank 6 LSM and rank 5 for all the other factions and I can tell you that LSM are by no means the underpowered faction. The bottom 2 factions IMO are the ones which have had successive nerfs of things that were clearly better than their marine counterparts (Orks and Eldar) but without buffs to the things in which they are clearly worse at.
  5. Lucius Vinicius JojoKasei Arkhona Vanguard

    I thin the interval between "throws" of Hawkseer grenades should be increased (not by mich, mind you). I have run into situations when someone died to them without the time to react so often, I can't even count anymore. They have no grenade indicator, they fall in 4 pieces a second (given the player can push the G button fast enough), and those 4 are enogu to kill you. Now I am a shitty Hawk so I can't hit anyone with them, but from extensive tries at hitting people with them I am safe to say that the RoD (rate of drop) is just a bit too high (managed to drop all 10 within 2 seconds, according to my clock). Also a problem is that they can be dropped through windows from outside, effectively making them a no-go option to hide behind (normal grenades can do this too, of course, but they have an indicator and detonate after a time, so you can actually react to them).
    Of course they should not be pushed into unusability. But a 0.3 second delay between 2 grenades could help here. It would be nice to have a class "Swooping Hawk" again, not a "Pooping Pidgeon" (I don't know who coined that name, but it is unfortunately very fitting and hilarious).
  6. Asyran Eldritch Arkhona Vanguard

    Eh, the splash is so low and the Hawk has to put himself in a vulnerable position. I think the risk justifies the reward.
  7. Necroledo Necroledo Well-Known Member

    I really like and appreciate the intention of this topic. I agree it is sadly rare to see non-biased, or at least upset, balance feedback. And not just here on Eternal Crusade; it is a problem that seems to be present on every multiplayer game.

    I think the reason behind this might be that players tend to forget that "perfect balance" is just an ideal to follow, but that cannot be achieved, especially when multiple assymetrical factions are involved. Even if all there was just one "faction" or equivalent (let's say Planetary Annihilation or Call of Duty) some options equally available to all players could be considered "unbalanced". I think this is an important thing to take into account.

    Now, more into the topic. How do Eldar players feel about the missile launchers of the Dark Reaper? I only played Eldar a few times and found them very difficult to use, but assumed it could be my lack of experience. Actually, I found the whole Dark Reaper difficult to use in an effective way. Do you guys feel the DR could use some help?
  8. Cabal Trainee CabalTrainee Arkhona Vanguard

    For me it is really hard to say how to balance the reaper launcher properly. It is mostly due to the different firemodes.

    The starswarm the basic firemode which is what they use usually in lore and TT as far as i know (correct me if wrong) is easily one of the most useless weapons in the game. It is so useless i would probably argue for a full rework of that thing. Maybe even to something autocannon like.

    The starshot however is a very good tool. It is an amazing sniper weapon due to it's oneshot on everything. Even Elites go down instantly with no chance for revival. (Oh yeah and you can destroy vehicles, too but i'm a little camper sniper bitch)

    I actually have no idea how to balance that. If both are good you run around with two heavy weapons in comparison to all other factions. But against infantry from a lore standpoint starswarm should be the go-to weapon.
  9. James Aringhe Ordinate

    Now, see, here's the delusional part.

    Forum post says do A, B, C.

    Devs say, "great idea, we'll do it."

    Community gets excited because the post had a lot of good ideas in it.

    Devs implement B, some trace elements of C, with a new added twist of D and E to it. All are implemented in one large package and balance swings heavily towards one faction or away from another, causing gross imbalance.

    No one wanted D or E, but players aren't going to shy away from more content or attention. Reactions go from "omg wtf?" to "it'll work out."

    Keep in mind gathering statistics on how well you assault Pegasus means nothing. Players that are visually playing the game and differentiating between PUGs and guilds within matches, as well as logging their experience are worth 10x more than raw statistics. Especially in regards to quality of life improvements and balance.

    If the game is frustrating to play, it's frustrating to play. It's why, even though it only takes a reliable 5 shots to down an Eldar Dire Avenger, a huge chunk of LSM players are just excessively pissed when they fight Eldar. What the devs do to slowly churn balance out doesn't mean anything if the balance they're delivering is still frustrating a lot of players.
    Brother-Bardiel likes this.
  10. Lady Rheeva Steam Early Access

    Ahh see but this is exactly the wrong way to look at it. If you feel like something is wrong but this feeling is not based in reality it is your personal problem, not something a developer can fix.
    Lets stick with your example for instance: If, factually, Eldar are not overpowered (for arguments sake, pls dont make a discussion out of it) but you still dont like playing against them, no further nerf is going to improve your experience, all it will accomplish is making life worse for the Eldar players, your own biased point of view will remain the same.
    Imagine this was how things work in the real world. Actually, sadly, they are but lets not get political right now.
    I am not saying Devs can not make mistakes or are not making mistakes, but they do commonly have a better ability to judge than any of us, unless maybe if we act as a collective, rather than trying to defend our very narrow individual opinions against each other.

    I actually think I covered that one with a notion that multi-factionists have a much greater and less biased insight in general.

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