Ah my fault. I have been reading many threads about why BT are not up for being voted into the game, got a bit confused.
Think of it like this. The run of the mill BT doesn't have to be controlled, or deep, or philosophical. They have their zeal and fury, and that is enough. All they have to do is destroy the enemies of the Emperor, where ever they are found. Grimaldus, and Chaplains in general, have to be something else. They need to be the slow burn, where regular BT are explosive. They have to be thinkers, so that they can properly watch over the spiritual health of the Marines in the Chapter. Before Helsreach, Grim didn't have to be the slow burn, because he wasn't the main guy. Now, he is, and the book is all about Grimaldus learning to temper his fury to a manageable level, so that he can lead the other Templar (who burn fast and hot.) This is even reflected on the Table Top, at least until the Codex change. BT Chaplains give you control of the otherwise erratic movement of the Crusader Squad. I guess, in a way, BT are simple, because they don't have the worries of the other Chapters. Literally their only purpose is to destroy the enemies of mankind. They aren't caught up in the politics, or the backstabbing. They are basically a 6000-9000 strong Chapter running around, flipping off the Inquisition, and cutting a swath through the traitor, psyker, xeno and whatever else happens to go against the Emperor.
How is it that, every time there's a thread even remotely linked to Black Templars, that you fools think you have some right to start bashing and hating? Don't try to play on words, you know exactly what you're doing. I think I've seen enough of you trolls and I'm becoming quite ill of it to be honest. It's sad that you people (Joram & Partisan, namely) haven't yet been removed for your religious banter toward our fanbase. If this game is to have some measure of success, I'd hope the devs put in mechanics to prevent people like yourselves from disrupting communications; otherwise this game will fall very fast and very hard, even if it does not totally collapse. Let us, everyone, put the thread back on topic, and stop derailing it to satiate your petty childish urges. Pick up a book, or go play with some friends. Stop perusing these forums in search of Black Templar related threads please. I should also request that any of us in the fanbase, do our best to ignore these Schwarzkopfs. The should simply be reported and ignored, do not fuel their fire. We can continue our own topic without the assistance of trolls.
Let me be clear, this thread is about BT table top, if anyone goes on from this post and begins to insult, bash or basically troll your post will be deleted and warning posts issued which will limit your account. If you have something negative to say or don't like the BT then simply ignore this thread. Thank you.
I got thinking, and maybe the Emperor's Campion should get his Stances back. The option to deal Instant Death to opponents who don't have Eternal Warrior is valuable. Grimaldus is now T6 because the guy not only survived a collapsing temple, but walked away with wounds that shocked the Apothecaries. I'd say that makes him pretty tough. (If Cassius is mostly machine, why did Grimaldus get It Will Not Die when that's the Iron Hands' deal?) I've had people present concerns of how this new set of rules will help the Templars, as more Attacks doesn't mean they will live long enough to use them. Any ideas on how this can be fixed? Also, it's come to my attention that the sixth Warlord Trait (No Pity! No Remorse! No Fear!) might require lots of difficult book keeping. I've been considering changing it to "The Warlord and his unit's Dedicated Transport is an Assault Vehicle." But I'm not sure. What do you guys think?
One thing I liked about the BTs was the great HQs and the buffs they gave. I do like the idea of multiple chaplains. like a ton. Also terminator honors available to buy for HQs is fantastic. For the Emperors Champion. Give him a bolt pistol, lose Two-handed, lose deny the witch, and give him AP 2. Thats how he was before 6th, when he was as great as he should be. If you ask me; 140 points, EC should not be the warlord. And Chaplains for BT dont take up FoC and are like you stipulated. Warlord traits: 1) templars can choose, we could with Vows before, why not now. 2) one should be AAC. All troops or something get Rage (Chaplains got Hatred covered) 3) other should be armywide deny the witch, and like D3 units get scout move 4) Im mostly "meh" on your given ones, however I *love* armywide relentless! 5) the last warlord trait is just unfair. 6) maybe one where the HQ and all units in 12" (or 6" for balance) cannot be overwatched against. I do like the Sword Brothers upgrade, and Blessed Hull. Also, please please please do the 6 pt flamer, 15 pt plas gun, 6 pt melta. Cheap Meltas was so useful. With a lack of devistators BTs *needed* it before, however it fits with the army. Hope that wasn't a giant blob of tabletop words that made no sense.
Again, 2 key issues. First is mobility since shooting armies are more mobile with rapid fire weapons being able to move and shoot at full range in the same turn. Back in 4th edition, we could consolidate into close combat, so Righteous Fury moves could actually get a squad across the board and into melee combat during an opponents turn. Those both got taken away. Then we turned to mech lists, but now even a LRC can get wrecked on turn 1 by getting glanced to death. We now have to cover more ground thanks to enemy gunlines kiting us, and we get there slower since our vehicles get shot up super quick. Something like the 5th edition fleet of foot (able to run and charge on the same turn) would help greatly there. Make it conditional that the unit must have suffered a ranged casualty or something. Secondly, we need our melee staying power back. Our crusader squads are nothing more than tactical marines with a chainsword. Our vows (accept any challenge in particular) are what made crusader squads deadly in close combat. If we had an elites selection to get a squad of 3 independent chaplains, that would be both fluff adherent (we have a lot of chaplains) and give us better access to Zealot to make our crusader squads hurt again.
Yeah, Righteous Zeal should return. Also I think giving the crusaders rage and hatred does wonders to their melee power, especially if they can get 2 power weapons in a squad now.
I have a 2 squads of 15 BT (10 initiates, 5 neophytes each) backed up with a land raider (eternal) crusader, 2 predator tanks, 2 land speeders equipped with whirlwind missile launchers and a 5 man squad of terminators ready to deep strike, also equippied with a whirlwind missile launcher. Black Templar Tide armies are the only way to play. Crush 'em with missiles and artillery then send the 30 Templar models across the board to clean house.
