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Chaos Mark Ideas

Discussion in 'Chaos Space Marines' started by Eldritch, May 13, 2017.

  1. I... don't think so honestly. It would make Nurgle as fast as Devastators (at least i intended it like this) and i've never heard Devastators complaining how slow they are :D

    And i regularly see them at capture points, so...?
  2. Slayer88 Recruit

    So, I'm a long time Chaos fan and a beginner to this game (literally just started). I want to share my opinion, but it's not as relevant to this game specifically as much as it's an opinion on the marks more generally.

    I for one think that the marks are relatively nice, though if some are too powerful and others are weaker than there ought to be some adjustments.

    I really like the idea of giving them lifesteal and making sorcerer spells not affect them. However, if there is any offensive magic striking against chaos than Mark of Khorne ought to mitigate that as well, and not just mitigate helpful magic.

    I would focus Mark of Khorne on damage or offensive melee power. Lifesteal is nice and removing healing from sorcerers fits as both a lore and a design choice, but I hear that the lifesteal isn't very useful and I think it should either be improved somewhat or the MoK should also offer a form of magic resistance. Idk if enemy magic is a threat to Chaos, but if it is than this feature is a missing key, imo.

    I think Mark of Nurgle is really well designed, too, though maybe the numbers aren't where they should be. Mark of Nurgle should provide bonus toughness, whether in the form of extra health or higher damage resistance. Also, Mark of Nurgle should slow you down a bit. Speed is important, and Plaguemarines are more of a defensive unit that holds positions. They're not necessarily mobile. Reduction to movement speed and stamina in exchange for greater durability is good.

    Mark of Slaanesh should increase speed. Increased movement speed, maybe attack speed, reload speed, all sorts of stuff like that. Maybe even allow them to accelerate and decelerate quicker. The negative penalties seem to fit, in my opinion, but could also be any number of penalties that simply make MoS a little less tough. They're more akin to Eldar fighters, while still being Space Marines.

    Mark of Tzeentch shields are good and fluffy. Lowering their health doesn't seem fair, honestly, but whatever. I think MoT should have some magic enhancement properties, but I can see how this would pigeon hole them into being Sorcerers... but really, who plays Tzeentch and doesn't focus on their sorcerers?

    Anyway, I'm rather impressed by the Marks of Chaos in this game, though I could come up with several alterations if I needed to.
  3. Slayer88 Recruit

    After actually playing some games with the Mark of Khorne I can see some ways to improve the Mark. Now, I don't want to say that MoK isn't powerful, because I'm very new, but everyone says it's weak and it didn't seem powerful at all to me. In fact, MoK feels more like a debuff than anything else.

    I like that it makes you ignore healing from the sorcerer, but it needs something more in order to compensate. I think any combination of the following adjustments could help make MoK a little more viable. Now, I haven't stacked up lifesteal, yet, so maybe it becomes a lot better later, idk.

    - Allow Lifesteal to regenerate health when damage to shields is dealt.

    - Allow Lifesteal to proc off dead bodies and also off of damage to bleeding out targets (if it doesn't already). This way, a Mark of Khorne guy can butcher the bodies of his enemies in order to heal himself between engagements and he'll also continue healing if he swings too many times after he gets the kill. I really like this idea and think the MoK should be able to heal itself between fights.

    - Provide Mark of Khorne with some amount of health regeneration. I know shields regenerate and health does not, but I think Mark of Khorne should provide health regeneration of some rate. Khornate warriors are fueled and sustained by battle, and that doesn't mean only when their axe is piercing flesh, but also while they are running around looking for people to slaughter. The entire battle is a battle, not just the individual fire fights, and the Khornate warriors should be continuously sustained on the battlefield.

    - Simply increase the Lifesteal.

    - Mark of Khorne should provide healing for executions. Either 100% health regeneration or a very large chunk (like 50-60 HP) for executions.

    Ideally, I think improving the Lifesteal and causing Executions to provide massive healing would be the most appropriate design in terms of lore and balance. This would allow the Khorne Berserker to leave each engagement with full health but not allow him to defeat every enemy through overly buffing the lifesteal and won't cause them to sit around waiting for their health to regenerate or anything.

    So, if you read all of that, let me remind you that my suggestion is to choose a combination or a single feature from the above list, not all of them.
  4. Mainfold Mainfold Preacher

    Khorne should remain incapable of receiving healing from psyker-based means. The melee life-steal should be amped up quite a bit, but also needs to grant a portion of healing for every kill (separate from actual damage-based lifesteal healing). But agree on the executions part. Ranged lifesteal probably shouldn't be a thing, and should most likely be replaced by something like that heal-on-kill, to not grant a sort-of "prolonged life" in firefights with someone (additionally you also shouldn't get healed by damaging armor with them, because you're not drawing blood then).

    Tzeentch is the god of trickery, intrigue, deception, change, evolution, and sorcery. And as such, should "mess" with people, like not being able to be "locked onto" (with melee and smart weapons, etc). If anything, it should be a much more potent psyker by a longshot (ironically the absolute worst currently), it's already suffering from it's %-based health reduction, so it would probably be befitting of it's nature to have it (rather than just reduce hp) both reduce health and increase armor by the same %, as to then make it weak to disease (in this case poison) without nerfing it too much overall (as poison ignores armor, but goes straight for health). And it goes without saying Tzeentch-psykers need more spells, because flickering fire is a joke.

    Slaanesh is very much focused on self-indulgence (or egotistical pursuit of pleasure, vanity and what's desirable to oneself), which makes perfect sense to have melee based on the innate desire to win in melee, and get to something first (i.e; faster melee, faster stamina recovery, faster movement, etc). But also should relish in the agony of others (hence the noise marines and such), so "toying" with the enemy would be a thing that could be expanded on, though could come in many forms.. but something like "combo-attacks" whereby you'd get benefits from swapping means of attack, would benefit the user (i.e; a little bolter fire, then a little melee, then some pistol, etc). These a lot of interesting stuff that could be done with MoS.

    Nurgle is pretty obvious.. pestilence, persistence, certainty, plague, destruction, decay and death. In it's current state, it's pretty good, but not exactly there yet. Increased health makes perfect sense, poison resistance makes perfect sense, stamina regen reduction makes perfect sense (though not so much for the fuel regen, but that's because they use the same system for it), but if they were to reduce movement speed, they'd have to make up for it in big ways (as that would be the only case in the entire game for something moving inherently slower than everything else, which doesn't exactly make sense). It'd be easier to give them a benefit for willingly moving slower, than to actually punish them by permanently slowing them down. Furthermore, items like the "nurgle nade" need more potency (or regenerate ammo like healing nades do and servoskulls) and staying around and linger for longer (like the ork poison grenade does). If someone has poison on them when they die from stream of corruption for instance, that could "explode" the corpse like a bile-bomb and infect those around it. Though, stream of corruption is pretty bad in it's current state.

    There's plenty of things that could (and probably need to) be changed when it comes to god-specific stuff.
  5. Slayer88 Recruit

    @Mainfold I don't understand why you or anyone thinks that Lifesteal shouldn't work on shields. Khorne isn't a vampire, his warriors aren't fueled by blood, they're fueled by battle. Blood is just a symbol of combat and killing and Khorne wants his followers to spill blood, but they're being constantly fueled and replenished through the act of killing, battling, and conflict. They don't need blood in order to be fueled, blood is just a standard and common thing for them battling.

    Does anyone think that power weapons should be redone? I mean, I personally think that the Power Weapon's penetration should be designed to damage the health before the shield is depleted. I know most power weapons have 120 Penetration, which to me would mean that 20% of their damage is dealt to health even when the shield exists. I think the penetration ought to increase to like 50+, but I think that would make power swords make more sense in terms of their lore and would also improve both melee (which people seem to think is underpowered) and improve the MoK by increasing the frequency of lifesteal.
  6. Mainfold Mainfold Preacher

    What? It has nothing to do with being a vampire lol, it's about spilling blood for the blood god. Spilling blood, killing and gathering skulls for the skull throne, literally what the khorne warriors state their goal is.

    You're not harming a person if you're damaging their armor, by that logic shooting a stormshield, or a vehicle, or whatever.. would also generate healing, which just doesn't make sense. If you go from a literal sense, they shouldn't get any lifesteal at all.. but that's the way it's they chose to portray them in the game.
  7. Slayer88 Recruit

    My point about the Vampire is that Khornate warriors are not replenished when they spill blood. They are replenished when they are battling. They don't need to be spilling blood in order to be fueled by their psychotic adrenaline.

    Khorne wants blood to be spilt in his name. He wants his followers to kill and to spill blood. But that does not mean that they are only fueled by blood being spilt. Their goal of spilling blood is a metaphor, it is symbolic, it's not as literal as people often make it out to be. I'm not saying that they don't enjoy bloodshed, they do. But what the goal of a Khornate warrior is is to kill, not to make bleed. Khorne wants his followers to kill in his name and he expresses that by the command of bloodshed. But it is not so literal that a Khorne Berserker isn't being fueled by fighting an enemy UNTIL the blood leaves the enemy's body and then, now the 'zerker is being fueled.

    The act of fighting in combat and being in a battle is what fuels Khorne's followers. The act of striking an enemy and damaging his armor, or damaging his weapon, are in fact acts that would enrage and fuel a Khorne Berserker. I agree that attacking a vehicle would not sustain a khorne warrior until he starts inflicting damage on those inside, though if a zerker was fighting a dreadnought he'd certainly be getting fueled by the battle, even if there was no blood.

    Khorne revels in destruction. Khorne Berserkers fight Necron without any sorts of issues.

    I agree that they shouldn't have lifesteal to begin with as it's not exactly what the Mark of Khorne does (the Mark of Khorne provides wrath and insatiable rage), but I see what they are trying to do with it. The lifestealing that Khorne warriors benefit from is not tied to the blood of their enemies, it is tied to the psychology of the warrior. The warrior sees himself damaging and defeating his foe and because of this he becomes fueled by his desire to for kill in Khorne's name. So yes, damage armor, damaging flesh, damaging weapons, damaging shields.... damaging anything that is fighting back and being a part of a battle or fight will enhance the Khornate warrior's desire to fight and reduce his willingness to give up and die.
    Mhorge likes this.
  8. Catnium Catnium Well-Known Member

    I disagree. in history many weapons such as the dane axe and war hammer or out right giant clubs and sword were used to simply bash a knight in mail or plate down with simple impact damage.
    being in armor doesn't necessarily mean you are also save from big impact shock damage transmitting through the armor.
    that's why we at some point used these:
    highly effective.

    Giving the weight of some of the 40k melee weapons i'd say they can manage a good ol bash to the helmet and you'd actually feel it.
  9. Slayer88 Recruit

    I know that you're agreeing with me and you're not wrong, but I think that this game implies that the person under the armor is not taking damage while the armor is up, even from large weapons such as hammers or fists.

    In fact, this game is a little strange. Instead of blunt damage and force being transmitted through armor (which I'm not convinced would happen with power armor) what they have designed is a poison system that ignores armor. So the medieval blunt weapons are more similar to the poisonous attacks of this game, in terms of mechanics.

    The Necrotic Chainsword is more like a mace, in practice, than the power maul lol.
    Catnium likes this.
  10. Catnium Catnium Well-Known Member

    Hmm i've never actually thought about it that way..
    The Necrotic Pain Stick..

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