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Changes to the meta from 7th Ed to 8th Ed?

Discussion in 'Table Top' started by acepost, Jun 18, 2017.

  1. acepost acepost Active Member

    Hi guys, my girlfriend thinks some concepts need to change for Warhammer 40000.

    Here is a list of changes my girlfriend is not happy with and wants to change:

    1. Eldar should have more toughness 4 units be it normal Guardians or Aspect Warriors. Or at least be given an option to purchase higher toughness values.

    2. Tyranids should be less swarm based and have more value for points quality units. She feels that Tyranids are lying and cheating some how.

    These are some complaints she and her friends told me about, I am ok for quality tyranids and Eldar concept redone somehow... what do you guys think?
  2. Cydonia Cydonia Well-Known Member

    Initial thoughts are 8th is the swarm meta. Conscripts, nids in general, Boyz. Orks benefit immensely from 8th, actually, since their biggest issue was low Initiative and characters/Nobz getting challenged.
  3. Well Tyranids are supposed to be a swarm faction and Eldar are supposed to be a low toughness, high mobility faction. They've got that with Movement valuea being a thing and Tyranids are actually stronger with having more wounds and I may be mistaken but Instant Death has been taken away in favor of weapons that do multiple wounds.

    I don't know where they're getting their ideas for these revamps, but they're pretty much not based on the lore of the factions.

    There's a good chance swarms are more effective, I brought 5 min squads of Cultists to my first 8th game and they were actually moderately useful meat for the grinder.
  4. Xio Valency Xi0 Preacher

    I'm actually starting table top again as Eldar I've been looking at the new units though all the messy nerfs they got.

    So for point one I would love Scorpions to be toughness 4 since they got a very nasty nerf hammer making them go from anti infantry to anti hero rng cheese fest, but you still have plenty of that T4 goodness in the book.

    If you want more T4+ I suggest getting bikes and/or wraiths for the durability you want as these are the tankiest infantry the book has to offer, looking at the new rules Shining Spears are truly the beefy power house you want this edition, fast, tanky, strong, cheapish, anti hero, anti elite and anti air, just don't go after those 10+ wound monsters.

    For example if you fire and then charge with a squad of 4 into Terminators, they will die so very fast, for example, fail a 5+ save from either his 1 shot in the shooting phase or from one of his 3 strength 6 melee attacks in melee then blam dead, considering Spears are also cheaper in points that's a good point investment.

    All Eldar shouldn't be t4 imo as they are human strength and durability, t4 is generally super human durability with t5 being painless beings such as Nurgle filth, with T6+ going into vehicle territory

    This is why Eldar were initiative 5 to 6 in 7th, following the scale They had insane speed with I5 and/or 6, sadly they lost all that for 1 inch of movement and tons price increase on practically everything:mad:
  5. Sariel Searva Ordinate

    This edition should just be called Age of Guilliman: A Time of Hordes and Heroes because that is the meta for this edition but I guess I don't really understand your changes or your reasons for such a change...

    1. In what meta ever has an elf had a high toughness value? Eldar are right in line with Tau, Most Daemons, Humans, Cybernetic Humans, Nid-Human Hybrids, and Nid troops. The only troopers that have Toughness 4 are: genetically enhanced post-humans (space marines), massive bloodthirsty sentient biospores (Orks), Xenos race that has reached Singularity and has metal bodies (Necrons), and massive bugs that have mutated to also be able to provide synapse (Nid Warriors). What exactly would your reasoning be to give elves T4 other than that you want it?

    2. You want "The Endless Swarm" to not be an endless swarm? Tyranids got major improvements to their bigger bugs with higher wound counts higher toughness and generally more attacks, so this already sort of happened. It just also happens that this is a horde edition so you are also gonna want to bring little bugs too. Imagine a Trygon that automatically comes in 9" away w/ 20 genestealers following it with rending claws and adrenal glands. The genestealers now need a 7" charge with a command point reroll if you cant roll average. Those Genestealers on 6s go to -4 rend and have a big Trygon to back them up... Turn 2 you get a patriarch in there and say goodbye to anything you touch... its pretty good.
    DAG42 likes this.
  6. Cydonia Cydonia Well-Known Member

    Another thing I've noticed is that Ynarri tend to be a better faction pick than either side of eldar, because Power from Pain got a bit meh, and not everything loves Battle Focus.

    ...and Yvraine casting Word of the Phoenix on Dark Reapers is nightmare fuel.
  7. It really depends. Necrons, for example, currently have a pretty hard time dealing with mass armour/monsters; they never really had that many big guns because, thanks to the Gauss rule, they never needed them, but in 8th this is coming back toi bite them in their shiny metal asses.
    Now their heavy weapons (Heavy Destros and Doomsday Ark) are pretty efficient - mobile, Destros have 3 wounds and RP, and DDArks have Quantum Shielding - but cost a lot more than what they can be expected to fight against, Necrons have basically no answer to Knights and such, and IG lasguns are more point-efficient against big stuff than Gauss flayers.

    Still, with how RP works now, "Hordes and Heroes" *is* how Necrons should be played, probably. A 20-man squad of T4 4+ 5++ with RP on a 4+ (twice a turn if you keep a Ghost Ark nearby) is pretty hard to budge.... but probably won't kill much.
  8. Sariel Searva Ordinate

    Necrons didn't really have an "answer" to big things before. It just so happened that they turned into Guard shooting against big things and vehicles were weak in the last edition so you could bury them in shots. Against Monstrous Creatures they were garbage.

    The Balancing between a guardsmen and a warrior: You get 3 times as many guardsmen as warriors -> an extra 1/6 of those guardsmen will miss due to a worse ballistic skill-> Against things toughness 6-7 Warriors will wound 1/6 more often -> Saves against warriors go to 1/6 worse than against guardsmen.

    Against say, a predator. Statistically against a Predator for example a 10 man warrior team outside of rapid fire would hit 6-7 times and wound 2-3 times. Predator would be dropped to a 4+ save so 1-2 would get through.30 guardsmen would hit 9-10 times would wound 1-2 times and the Pred would get a 3+ save so 0-1 would get through.

    Against say a Knight a 10 man Warrior Squad would hit 6-7 times, would wound 1-2 times and would take a Knight to a 4+ save so 0-1 would go through. 30 guardsmen would hit 9-10 times would wound 1-2 times and the Knight would get a 3+ save so 0-1 would get through.

    The big difference here is auras from heroes. The guard hero could add double shots to 1 of the units while a Cryptek would make half of the dead Necrons come back each turn.

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